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Thread: The murdering-est guardian 3.0

  1. #11
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    All the people I play against, move out of it. I also tend to not use it so offensively right after my stun and instead use it to iframe out a ton of damage, because I value that more highly than the potential damage it might do IF I drop my stun on a dude point blank and ult.

    Unless you fully calculate Cabrakan's damage.
    Well, you're playing Fafnir... I won't say wrong, but not to his fullest. Fafnir is there to divert all attention to him. They either react and drop everything on him or they'll get deicided. You can't ignore a dragon in your midst.

    As a Fafnir player, you want to be the dragon as often as possible. Or else you're playing with half a god (pun intended).

    Fafnir without ult: 1588 + 344%. 7th base, 5th scaling. Ok, I was wrong on that.
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  2. #12
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    Well, you're playing Fafnir... I won't say wrong, but not to his fullest. Fafnir is there to divert all attention to him. They either react and drop everything on him or they'll get deicided. You can't ignore a dragon in your midst.

    As a Fafnir player, you want to be the dragon as often as possible. Or else you're playing with half a god (pun intended).
    As a Fafnir player, I also know that spamming your ult just leaves you with timing out at inopportune times and wastes one of the most impactful aspects of it, which is baiting out ults and completely blanking them with iframes.

    Just jumping on someone, throwing your hammer and then ulting is a waste of so much of Fafnir's potential, which can be crucial since he only has single target CC. All for what? A bit of damage? Damage that you can more than make up for by using your dragon more wisely to avoid damage or holding it for when the enemy thinks you're out of steam so you can surprise them with a fresh kit that's now tearing them apart after they've used abilities/relics to deal with your dwarf form?

    Of course, sometimes I use the ult for other things, such as zoning (I.e. Damage but against people who aren't locked down/morons) or just to get the extra mobility/CC. But generally I wanna try and be a threat, get targeted then laugh my way to the bank with all the gold I get from killing gods who wasted abilities/ults on my iframes.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    As a Fafnir player, I also know that spamming your ult just leaves you with timing out at inopportune times and wastes one of the most impactful aspects of it, which is baiting out ults and completely blanking them with iframes.

    Just jumping on someone, throwing your hammer and then ulting is a waste of so much of Fafnir's potential, which can be crucial since he only has single target CC. All for what? A bit of damage? Damage that you can more than make up for by using your dragon more wisely to avoid damage or holding it for when the enemy thinks you're out of steam so you can surprise them with a fresh kit that's now tearing them apart after they've used abilities/relics to deal with your dwarf form?

    Of course, sometimes I use the ult for other things, such as zoning (I.e. Damage but against people who aren't locked down/morons) or just to get the extra mobility/CC. But generally I wanna try and be a threat, get targeted then laugh my way to the bank with all the gold I get from killing gods who wasted abilities/ults on my iframes.
    If being the 2nd most damaging god in the game (I'm not 100% on that one, but it's close if it's not) can't convince you to play to kill, nothing will. Play a cowardly dragon walking around drapped in a mattress and doing potato damage for all I care. To each his own. I think it's a waste but hey, it's your game. Besides, you started saying it wasn't possible to land Fafnir's ultimate, now you're saying you don't want to.

    Now, in my opinion, what my numbers show regarding builds is:

    Class 1: High scaling (or Bacchus) - build power, Tahuti is an option

    • Fafnir: 494%
    • Athena: 380%
    • Xing Tian: 355%
    • Ymir: 350%
    • Cabrakan: 310%
    • Bacchus: 200% (only because all that free defense and how well he works with Poly)


    Class 2: High base, low scaling - get penetration, maybe Soul Reaver, don't bother with power

    • Terra: 315% (but not in the realm of possibility, get healer items)
    • Kuzenbo: 270%
    • Ganesha: 260%
    • Ares: 216%
    • Sobek: 200%
    • Artio: 195%
    • Kumbhakarna: 175%
    • Geb: 100% (but the ultimate)


    Class 3: Low base, low scaling - don't bother at all (maybe Gem of Isolation)

    • Sylvanus: 185% (get healer items)
    • Khepri: 120%
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 09-23-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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  4. #14
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    If being the 2nd most damaging god in the game (I'm not 100% on that one, but it's close if it's not) can't convince you to play to kill, nothing will.
    Who the fuck said I don't play to kill?

    I play to kill, but I know that one single ability worth of damage is peanuts compared to living longer and throwing out more AA's and potentially more abilities...

    Besides, you started saying it wasn't possible to land Fafnir's ultimate, now you're saying you don't want to.
    It's a bit of both. I tend to err on the side of using it defensively, because that ultimately leads to more damage. Especially because it's so easy for people to just walk out of the area. With the only arguments against that being "Well, if you stun them immediately before you ult, you can secure it on that 1 person!"

    Which honestly seems like a waste of time, especially since it's still not guaranteed to land that damage (They could decide to beads out that stun or a Geb/Hel could free them, or they might pop Aegis after you transform and dive on them and nullify both the ult and your attack's damage since its a DoT)
    Preferred Gods:
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Who the fuck said I don't play to kill?

    I play to kill, but I know that one single ability worth of damage is peanuts compared to living longer and throwing out more AA's and potentially more abilities...



    It's a bit of both. I tend to err on the side of using it defensively, because that ultimately leads to more damage. Especially because it's so easy for people to just walk out of the area. With the only arguments against that being "Well, if you stun them immediately before you ult, you can secure it on that 1 person!"

    Which honestly seems like a waste of time, especially since it's still not guaranteed to land that damage (They could decide to beads out that stun or a Geb/Hel could free them, or they might pop Aegis after you transform and dive on them and nullify both the ult and your attack's damage since its a DoT)
    If they Beads or Aegis, their loss. That's not different from any god. I'll use the ultimate aggressively because I generally use Spear of the Magus and Gem of Isolation, so they're already debuffed when I land the rest of the dragon kit. The plan is to single someone important out - the ADC or main mage - and kill them, while diverting the attention to me.

    Of course, if the occasion calls for it, I'll use the ultimate to escape or zone. It's actually very funny to see something like Artemis ulting you from close, taking the ultimate to the face, then dying, all while you were at 10% health.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Chosen Derled's Avatar
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    Tahuti is pretty much waste of gold unless you have shitloads magic dmg already, so not really useful for "guardians"
    Win lane, lose game

  7. #17
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derled View Post
    Tahuti is pretty much waste of gold unless you have shitloads magic dmg already, so not really useful for "guardians"
    False. The average guardian has enough scaling to warrant buying Tahuti; those that don't generally have a good way to proc Poly.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derled View Post
    Tahuti is pretty much waste of gold unless you have shitloads magic dmg already, so not really useful for "guardians"
    Am I talking to the walls here? Have you even bothered to check the numbers on the first page? If you're building bruiser, you won't pick Tahuti alone.

    If someone wants a power guardian, they may go with two hybrids and one pure defense (Void Stone, Urchin/Deso, Celestial Legion), just two defense items (Deso + Urchin/Spirit Robe), a single defense item, or yolo pure damage (not recommended unless you're jungling). That and boots leave enough space to make Tahuti count.

    For example, my typical mid/late game Fafnir build:

    CDR boots (40) > Deso > Spirit Robe > Spear of the Magus (50) > Gem of Isolation (70) > Rod of Tahuti (125).

    Tahuti bumps the magical power from 160 to 357 - more than doubles it. Considering that Fafnir has 500% scaling, that means an increase from 800 to 1785 damage from power.

    Or the good ol' Murderthena:

    Pen Boots (45) > Urchin > Celestial Legion Helm (60) > Void Stone (20) > Tahuti (125) > Polynomicon (75)

    Tahuti bumps this from 200 to 407 - again, more than doubling, and making Poly hit for 306 instead of 150.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 09-23-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Chosen Derled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    Am I talking to the walls here? Have you even bothered to check the numbers on the first page? If you're building bruiser, you won't pick Tahuti alone.

    If someone wants a power guardian, they may go with two hybrids and one pure defense (Void Stone, Urchin/Deso, Celestial Legion), just two defense items (Deso + Urchin/Spirit Robe), a single defense item, or yolo pure damage (not recommended unless you're jungling). That and boots leave enough space to make Tahuti count.

    For example, my typical mid/late game Fafnir build:

    CDR boots (40) > Deso > Spirit Robe > Spear of the Magus (50) > Gem of Isolation (70) > Rod of Tahuti (125),

    Tahuti bumps the magical power from 160 to 357 - more than doubles it. Considering that Fafnir has 500% scaling, that means an increase from 800 to 1785 damage from power.
    Why on earth would u pick faffy on mid anyway,
    @sir in any serious game (cq) you really don't have gold to waste to buy a tahuti, and there are more important items for a guardian to build than most expensive item in game just to get some power.

    And this thread is just "in theory" what reads on paper, not what .. u know actually works
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derled View Post
    Why on earth would u pick faffy on mid anyway,
    @sir in any serious game (cq) you really don't have gold to waste to buy a tahuti, and there are more important items for a guardian to build than most expensive item in game just to get some power.

    And this thread is just "in theory" what reads on paper, not what .. u know actually works
    Have you ever heard about Fafnir's passive? The one that gives extra gold? Have you ever considered that this means he can afford expensive stuff?
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