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Thread: I think blink is problematic.

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    I think blink is problematic.

    I think blink relic is problematic in terms of balance in this game. Smite is a lot like a game of chess where you move pieces around to get a favorable position and blink pretty much lets you move a piece anywhere you want instantly. This mechanic is however pretty core to a lot of mobas, yet I do not really like it in smite.

    The problem is highlighted on Gods that can use it without getting punished to much by what it means to position yourself in a dangerous spot. Like Odin, He Bo, Ao Kuang, Hades, Hun Batz, Thannatos and Kali. All of these Gods can blink into position to deal a lot of damage or lay down a devastating ult and still have an escape to use after. Then there are a few others that simply enjoy being able to get close quickly, Cabrakan, Ares but have less means to escape. Or Tyr and Herc who can insta push someone out of position. In the case of odin and ares it makes them getting good ults much easier, for others it means an easier time getting a pick off in the backline. I'd argue Ghost relic wouldn't even be needed for balance if Odin didn't have access to blink. In the same way beads is a must vs a blink ares. A non blink ares can actually be dealt with in other ways. When you face a blinker the main counter is to get a relic of your own. Beads for pushers, ghost for wallers, aegis for bursters so your team can come and kill him before he kills you.

    I just don't like where we are at at the moment in terms of relics. Where you need a relic to counter another Gods relic. Sometimes this makes me feel like we could just skip relics altogether. Sure it adds more depth to the game but it also really screws with trying to balance it.

    What bothers me the most with blink is the range it provides. It creates pressure on the backline to stay really far away all the time from the God that has blink. So far away that its basically impossible to commit to a fight without getting blinked on. It really cements the tier lists for some Gods, if you do not have an escape on your God you are in the bad tier cause you can't avoid blink ganks. I think blink in particular (but also aegis and beads) takes away something from the finer nuances of the game where at the press of a button you can delete someone or a team (unless their relic is up).

    The only real counter apart from relics is to have a frontliner that can disrupt the blinker. In a well communicated team this is not a problem to solve but for casuals its something that most times just isn't addressed well.

    I don't really have a good suggestion how to solve this perceived problem of mine. All I know is that the blink mechanic really bothers me on some Gods. Sure I pick up blink myself on several Gods cause its so good but I really do not like having to do so.

    I'd love if the shop bug out just for a few days to lock down all relics as it did with the aura items. Just to feel how the game is without them. Cause its very hard knowing the difference without experiencing it. And if people just bought magis a insta semi global stun from a thor wouldn't be so much of a problem you know.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 09-15-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    You forgot Ares...Blink and Ult. He either burns beads down or pulls a nice chunk of the enemy team into a possible death trap.

    To be fair...that is the only God I have blink on and I've run him a decent amount of times without it (ran an Aura Ares so I didn't have the CDR for Ulting every 60s).

    Blink is a catch 22 item.

    It has uses but you need to be carful about who you are grabbing it on, when to use it, who all Is on the enemy team, do they have Ults up, etc.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameVeteranAzure View Post
    You forgot Ares...Blink and Ult. He either burns beads down or pulls a nice chunk of the enemy team into a possible death trap.

    To be fair...that is the only God I have blink on and I've run him a decent amount of times without it (ran an Aura Ares so I didn't have the CDR for Ulting every 60s).

    Blink is a catch 22 item.

    It has uses but you need to be carful about who you are grabbing it on, when to use it, who all Is on the enemy team, do they have Ults up, etc.
    I see more blink He bo these days then blink Ares =)

    Yes it has its cons but for some Gods its a really safe pick up still. Ares is a an example of a God who actually has a lot of risk involved with the blink cause he can't gtfo after like some others.

    Well it is what it is.
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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    if you think about it...how many gods have a "get out of jail free" card that allows them to blink in...do damage and escape practically unharmed.

    then think about the number of gods who don't have that.

    blink as it sits given the amount of gods without that escape is okay. about the only thing I could see maybe being viably done is on the base increase the cd for use up by...I dunno 30s or so. then the upgrade can lower the cd to what it is now.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    well serqet is one who is basicly 100% safe. unless they have someone with an insta stun who stands right where u going and just ults. Hun batz is really safe as well. Chaac another, the aoe silence and heal and your 1+2 combo not to mention regrowth its hard to not die. Odin is pretty safe as well but not like those previously mentioned in a pickle though he could get off ult before dying which can be enough. Sobek is one that easily gets out but its usefulness is kinda limited on him. Tyr also but actually making use of it good is harder then most others mentioned, same with herc it can be great but its limited and it can be beads dodged. Herc in difference to Tyr can actually die though.

    and u dont even need to be 100% safe, a he bo that lands the blink and ult can deal the dmg needed right then and there, if you even clump once that is that. If he is any good he might blink and insta toss one in the air buying enough time for even more carnage before blowing the load so to say. not to mention he can aegis or beads after and try scoot on out on his water as his team is piling in.

    ares is not nearly as good with blink as it doesn't provide nearly the same damage. good ares play with blink is just getting consistent ult on the proper target(s), its a race against time vs beads if u want it to be more then beads burner. Its insta cast though so it has its uses and can certainly carry with a good ares. same with xing its good but even more limited then ares, how many Gods cannot just jump out from his ult, Raijin, Anhur, Agni to name a few, so he has limited use for his. Out of those Gods its only Agni who can escape quick enough from a blinking he bo before he either deals dmg or tosses you so blink he bo is in many ways more portent then blink xing. The difference to ares is that many ults straight up counter ares ult (like nox) but ults that give ult immune doesn't even help vs he bo cause the main problem is the damage. That he bo excels so much from it is the quick stun(toss) and the quick very high aoe dmg, its one of the fastest most damaging "stun lock" combos in the game I can think off.

    unless you have a quick dodge God vs a he bo that blink insta ults you have like 0.1 sec to hit aegis and if he just waits and he toss you instead then what? Sure you can beads toss and aegis the ult if you are really quick on your fingers. But then there is the problem of beads and aegis having longer CDs. there is not many Gods that can compete against he bo in a game of stunning first or even escape in time by having an insta dash. there are a few God that can pull smth off like Ganesha, Nox, Agni, Hou Yi, Cern and Kali maybe, jump/dash his ult/toss, stun him preferably before he gets ult of and take it from there. You need an insta dash though and you need some kind of lockdown to have a shot along with good burst and you need the reactions of a God.

    I faced a great he bo as agni. He was a better player then me can't deny. But I did make one play, I dodge the ult after he blink in to kill me with my dash. I stun him on my fumes instantly after as I turn around. I ult and by the time my first bomb hit he hits me with his toss and casually walks away and kills my team from behind while I can't chase him and help cause there is a water slide in my way. A minute pass and this time he just tosses me instantly after the blink and then ult me and I die. We lost the game. He was better then me though so he deserve the win either way I could never he bo like that. I think there are many Gods who would fall to this, there are some weird ones I can think of that stand a decent chance, like vulcan who could dodge his stuff with a quick 1. But for many vs such a good he bo its insta death the moment he decides to blink. Then its a game of relics, and since blink is shorter you need to be the more passive one always in the positioning, the only time you can be aggressive is with 2 relics up and then you still gotta make an insane play to not die.

    I realize blink might stay forever and I think he bo is fine otherwise. So QQ just get gud etc I guess.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 09-21-2017 at 11:51 PM.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    And i wanna add nix to the list of potent blinkers. With some coms getting out safe aint to hard.

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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    the easier solution might be to just tweak the cd so it can't be used as much in the free form. the only issue there lies in that you can buy the upgrade when ever you want. so hi-rez might need to add in a limit stating you can't buy a relic upgrade until level 15 or something
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameVeteranAzure View Post
    the easier solution might be to just tweak the cd so it can't be used as much in the free form. the only issue there lies in that you can buy the upgrade when ever you want. so hi-rez might need to add in a limit stating you can't buy a relic upgrade until level 15 or something
    Thing is a character like Odin shouldn't have an initiation range of 50yds + whatever his jump is. Like 80-90 yrds total is my guess. To illustrate how bad this problem is it took 3 years of smite to get us ghost relic and it wasn't until blink was free to get that we desperately needed a counter vs Odin. Cause what did you do before he got blink? Well you harassed him if he got close, put slows on him so you could run away from his jump. Basically harass him down before he could get close enough. With blink he can just instantly land beside you and ult and there is no way out for some Gods who normally have no problem vs Odin (like Artemis, there is no way a non blink Odin should caught an Artemis with her extra MS and ranged slow) all of the sudden needs ghost relic just to counter his blink. The problem here is that blink has shorter CD. Making Odin have a totally brainless initiation on a God like Artemis, blink+ult, let team clean up. Making Artemis shit in the meta cause as soon as some Gods are picked her likelihood of getting caught out is so high she is hardly worth the risk picking as she lacks escape and there are relics that heavily benefit from taking on an a God with shitty movement abilities thanks to relics.

    No the only way to balance these relics is giving the same CD to blink as to beads. And if a God wanna get an advantage in the cooldown of their relic they need to pick up relic blade (or whatever the name is). I could live with an upgraded relic for 500g cut some 20sec of the CD but it should be the same for both blink, ghost, aegis and beads. The way it is now Artemis is the one that needs to invest in relic blade to have better hopes of escaping a blink Odin, this is offsetting balance in this game heavily. If Odin wanna blink more often then Artemis can escape with Ghost, he should be forced to get relic blade/dagger (you know what I mean I hope) or upgrade his relic earlier then her.

    To me this is how it should be. Naturally good blinkers shouldn't have an advantage out of the box cause CDR on blink is shorter then beads/ghost. Its totally stupid and a main reason balance is so hard to get right for some of these Gods at least that is what I think. Just look at Odins patch history, there is a reason they can't get it right and no its not his kit, its blink and how shitty the counters to a blink Odin is.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 10-01-2017 at 05:08 PM.
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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    before ghost, if I got trapped by odin, I would use this like shell or thorns (assuming I grabbed them), abilities to either get me out of the cage or keep me alive in the cage, barring that I had to hope I would survive long enough til the walls went down and use med
    Last edited by GameVeteranAzure; 10-03-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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    Love blink - it's a great escape as if you can dodge for 3 secs suddenly you are gone, yet it's also a great initiator as you can appear over a wall or from range. Gives tactical variety and because it's almost as good for escaping as initiating it works on many gods. I would argue that while a noob can still use it fairly effectively, it's great players who really use blink well, hence it's a high skill cap item, something to be encouraged.

    Another great blink god is Scylla - you put down your 3 somewhere safe, then blink into danger, hit the 1, 2 to burst some poor gods then hit the 3 and you fly back to safety.

    It's another reason everyone loves artio as not only is she unkillable but her 3 is the perfect anti blink weapon.

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