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Thread: The Direction Of Smite Balance

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    Senior Member Prestigious RippleApple's Avatar
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    The Direction Of Smite Balance

    I would like to take this moment to discuss how HiRez does their god balance, and fairly critique what I consider to be the good and the bad. This is less of a complaint about a specific god (though if I had to pick one in particular represented here it would be Susano), but more of a general overview of how HiRez does things, why, and my opinion on it.

    _____________

    From watching their method of problem solving in the past I've determined that they follow a specific model for the release of the god. That is, they try to work in new concepts, and because they're new concepts, players aren't used to those concepts. Therefore, to acclimate players to this new concept, they make this god release stronger than the current baseline set by the game. They try to constantly release gods to be at S-tier or above by inflating the numbers tied to their abilities, basics, base stats, everything, at least until their player base is somewhat used to that god.

    Then, they watch their development carefully and adjust their numbers up or down depending on how often they're being played and how often they're winning.

    They don't like reworking gods, or releasing underpowered gods, because players then lose perspective on how strong that god is.

    I believe this is an accurate representation of HiRez balance team's strategy regarding the release of gods in this game.

    _______________

    From this strategy, I detect three major flaws.

    1: "Players aren't used to new concepts." This makes sense in theory. However, in practice, a line ability is a line ability, a dash is a dash, a teleport is a teleport and a pull is a pull. Smite is a game which has options that allow you to see your ability's range and area of effect. What you're capable of doing with that god in terms of their abilities is obvious within a single game. Their itemization is actually irrelevant with this strategy; if the god has numbers that are specifically too high to make them easier to play, then minmaxing them isn't entirely necessary for them to do well. Keep in mind making them too strong is actually a good idea, but the problem I see is the presupposition that the game is complicated at all in terms of the range of abilities, their firing speed, their delivery speed, their cooldowns... these things are openly apparent.

    _________________

    2: The presupposition that adjusting numbers will always work. As an example, I'm going to talk about what I call dodge-tanks. It takes a very specific type of kit to make a dodge-tank. I'm not talking about gods with high mobility necessarily. I wouldn't classify serqet as a dodge-tank, because serqet's 1 acts as both a damage ability and an escape ability, just like her 3, but she can only choose either to do damage or escape with it. To be a dodge-tank in smite, you must necessarily have a high mobility, your character model must be small, you must be adept at escaping bad situations, and most importantly, you must be adept at dodging abilities while dealing damage. I first heard the term in a fire emblem community, speaking specifically about units you place at choke points to fight a large number of units attacking it simultaneously. However, instead of being a traditional tank, soaking up damage with a high defense, it dodges attacks with a high evasion. Functionally they tend to work the same, taking similar amounts of damage because the tank gets hit a half dozen times whereas the dodge-tank gets hit once.

    The problem with dodge-tanks in smite is that it creates a system of anti-skill. Abilities in smite are generally designed to hit gods with a certain movement speed. Pre-boots, players have a hard time dodging skillshots and landing skillshots. This makes large damaging abilities more powerful than smaller damaging abilities in the early-game if they were to do the same amount of damage, simply because those abilities are easier to confirm on targets that are moving so slowly. When they acquire boots, players are capable of avoiding abilities based on two factors I wish to focus on- their distance from the target they're dodging (and awareness/line of sight thereof), and their reading of what they think that person is about to do. With careful positioning, you place yourself at a distance where you think they can't hit you but you can hit them in order to poke them out.

    This is where poke gods are good - Thoth is a great example of this archetype, and a very powerful one. However, poke gods are beaten by dive gods because poke gods tend not to have the tools to distance themselves or shut down gods that are designed specifically to stick to them. Bellona is a good example of a dive god, and a very powerful one. Then there's teamfight gods, like Artemis and AMC, who have functional problems within their kit, usually with a lack of escape (though not always, as seen with Hun Batz) but are especially adept at dealing huge amounts of damage while helping their team (huge teamfight ults are a giveaway). Finally, there are displacement gods. Sylvanus, Sobek, old Arachne, Xing Tian, Hercules, Ares... these are gods strong against gods with no escapes, because they're good at taking them away from the place they've chosen to position and moving them toward somewhere they don't want to be. But most have a slight weakness to gods with escapes, simply because although you've pulled them they can simply leave if they survive it. Sobek is especially notable for this, having a fairly weak pull that requires accurate lockdown from his teammates rather than providing it himself.

    The reason I list out these four basic archetypes is to focus on three gods in particular - old Ratatoskr (NOT new Ratatoskr), release Bellona and Susano. These are the three that by my measure can be considered dodge-tanks.

    Old Ratatoskr had an acorn on release that allowed him to dash several times in succession (as long as he hit you) while proccing basic attacks through that dash's effect. And, the dash was an aoe, instead of a tiny line ability. This created a god that was very small and difficult to target, who could easily hit you, and could hit you multiple times, who forced you to either eat the damage or have a high chance of eating the damage while wasting your cooldowns trying to stop him. And if you did stop him, because beads were still powerful, he could simply beads most of the time, and then ult away. He was somewhat weak to cripples, but as long as he had his ult it was completely irrelevant. HiRez made a very good decision in reworking him into being a typical dive assassin.

    Release Bellona could position anywhere she felt like, and this should be a hint that she had some aspects of a dodge-tank. However, in addition to her movement speed passive being higher, and her two escapes, she had a certain degree of tankiness. Rather than being considered a pure dodge-tank, it would be accurate to describe her as a dodge-tank and dive god hybrid, which is potentially even worse. This is why she's so consistently strong regardless of the meta she's in. HiRez made a good decision in toning down her passive's movement speed and increasing her ult's cooldown, because it made her function more like a simple dive warrior and less like a dodge-tank/dive warrior hybrid, making a huge difference as to her efficacy in general. She's still strong and maintains some aspects of being a dodge-tank, but only comparatively to gods like Osiris and Erlang Shen in her class, who have nowhere near as much mobility.

    Finally, Susano. He's by far the most obnoxious god HiRez has ever released because his entire concept is built around being a dodge-tank, whether HiRez understands that or not. He's able to get in, do a HUGE amount of damage, and get out. When they nerfed his damage he was effectively worthless to his team. So they gave him his damage back, and he was ridiculously strong again. This is because he can position anywhere he wants and get out of the bad situation he's put himself in easily. This isn't because of his ult's pull strength, no matter how much HiRez wants to focus on his teamfight aspect. This is because of his passive. His 3/1 combo would be risky if he couldn't so easily stick to his target and evade abilities with the simple movement speed built into his passive. As if being a dodge-tank isn't enough, he also functions like a dive god (his abilities give him huge chase potential, teleporting in with his 3 being his primary method of engagement before his 1 and mixed basics do most of the work for him), and a displacement god (he has a pull in his basic kit, making him a counter to the anti-pull item stone of gaia), and a teamfight god (with his large aoe and cc of an ult).

    The reasons dodge-tanks are so ridiculous in smite compared to a game like Fire Emblem are numerous, but the one I think is most notable isn't that it allows you to dodge abilities, but that it creates a precarious point of balance regarding their damage. Dodge-tanks function like poke gods because you can't hit them so no matter where they position they're safe and able to out-trade you and dive gods because they're good at chasing kills. Giving poke gods high damage (like Thoth) creates an imbalance in the game; they should have to get close to do that much damage or expose themselves to risk in some way, like He Bo (bad early-game, no escape, ult that runs into the enemy, but an obnoxious 3 if you don't focus him early) or Agni (self-roots for a moment while ulting) or Vulcan (bad escape like Camazotz). Giving dive gods high damage works functionally, and it's why assassin as a class isn't necessarily overpowered; it's rather easy to kill serqet if you lock her down with a cripple or stun, it's rather easy to kill a Thor whose hammer is down, it's rather easy to kill anyone who jumps in and has low defensive stats, really.

    So, giving gods that are capable of diving while still being incredibly safe the ability to escape easily and also do huge amounts of damage while doing so creates a scenario wherein small changes to the meta will constantly jettison gods from above the point of balance to ridiculously above the point of balance. This results in gods that require nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf and still function well unless you touch their damage. The second you touch their damage to the point that they can't kill a target by dropping their whole kit on them, that god is considered completely worthless because the other player can simply tank their damage without much issue, without the need to waste abilities trying to lock them down, then back away. This creates a scenario where the chasing dodge-tank can easily be collapsed upon, and usually can't kill them even if they chase. A dodge-tank has to be very far behind for this effect to take place, or have very low damage otherwise.

    As an aside, it's simple to tell that adjusting numbers won't always work when HiRez has had to rework gods in the past because they couldn't fix them by adjusting their numbers. Their insistence on changing things like damage numbers, cooldowns and mana cost shows to me that they don't like the risk associated with upsetting fans of gods by changing them in a fundamental way. But without risk there is no reward, and you save yourself a lot of effort in the future by controlling the rate of powercreep a bit better instead of going "Well this is cool, let's do it" and then trying to apply bandaids to problems later.

    As another aside, the solution to fixing Susano is to change his passive to offer him defense or mitigation instead of movement speed. Now he can dive in, do damage and get out and if he gets locked down he can survive it, but he has to choose patiently when to do this instead of being able to do so consistently. Then if he has issues pulling this off you change his base movement speed very slowly upward in a few patches. Assassins should always have high damage, but not always have high mobility. Their desire to focus on his teamfight aspect shows to me a degree of ignorance of these concepts, which is why I made this thread to begin with. This is meant to be educational.

    As a final aside in this section, be careful with movement speed items. If you make them too strong you'll turn every melee god into a dodge-tank.

    _______________

    3: The final notable flaw that I see in how they develop new gods is that other players playing against them have issues playing against them because they also don't understand that god. This creates a perpetual state of imbalance as every two weeks or so a new god is introduced that's above the point of balance and it takes them four weeks or so minimum to bring them to a point of relative balance (in most cases). This is a relatively minor issue in the grand scheme of things, as ranked disallows "the OP new god" from mucking up the works for a whole patch, and banning gods from those games exists. However, when it takes HiRez's balance team so long to balance a god, and the new god takes a place on the ban slots for months after the fact, it damages the ranked experience as well. Thus, the second problem, that they really don't understand why certain gods are so strong and think just adjusting their numbers will always work, shows itself as a major issue. Focus on that. There's a reason why it's so much longer than these other sections. I doubt anyone minds OP news gods being OP, it's something we just accept, and even have fun with, but when that god is so strong for a year after the fact, it hurts the game as a whole, and simply nerfing them into oblivion temporarily is just a bandaid until a single item changes that puts them back into the meta.

    ______________

    Also, get former pros that are free agents to help test new god releases and make them sign a non-disclosure agreement instead of getting a bunch of casual smite players who work for you to do it. I'm sure they'd probably even do it for free if it means the game is better-balanced. At the very least it would help you avoid underpowered god releases completely, and clunky kits that aren't fun (Da Ji ult is garbage).

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    Senior Member Honoured MaverickSlayer's Avatar
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    This is a really great post that deserves more attention, and I agree with pretty much all of it. Hi-Rez doesn't seem to understand how powerful mobility really is, and mobility creep and power creep are going hand in hand. At this point I think Susano just needs a damage reduction on his 1 rather than making it slow and clunky and he'll be fine though.

    Also yeah, Da Ji's ult is weird. They really could have implemented it better rather than making it a combination of Rama and Ares' ults.

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    Member Worshipper MAADUECE's Avatar
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    i would kinda agree the pre pts testing if it is being done its not getting the right results if its not being done then it should be , im sure they could find a group of people to do some pre pts testing
    i don t really like the fact they wait a whole month before they do adjustment to new release gods id like to see more small changes at closer intervals for new gods
    susanos cd rest on his 3 makes him silly and gives him that excess mobilty

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    Senior Member Chosen BakaCircle9's Avatar
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    to be honest, i didn't read the whole text, but i read main part about their "strategy"... and all those things breaks into a pieces when you look how they balanced one single god

    im talking about Sol.

    instead of finding what exactly was an issue, they just reduced every number in her kit, then solved actuall problem(poly proc in her 2), then just "nah, lets nerf her more, ppl still think she is OP", and they totaly removed several things from her kit... even when she was considered as "balanced", they nerfed her again(that "inbuilded fatalis" removing). then they saw she was considered as "trash" by players(even in pro scene) and like "ok, lets fix some things we didn't fix before and say it was a buff". im talking about that "selfheal buff" and "ult buff". they didn't buff her selfheal, they fixed it, because 5% of missing hp at rank 1 didn't cause anything but laugh. they didn't buff her ult, they fixed it, because for how hard it is to land all 8 hits of this ability without any hard cc in her kit, her ult's old damage was incredibly low.

    finaly we got a god, who positioned by Hi-Rez as "using a mixture or abilities and basic attacks to deal massive amount of damage in a short period of time" - exact words from her god reveal video, but in a fact we have a god, that can deal damage, but can't kill someone without help of team. she was made to be ability-aa hybrid, like Fenrir, but her aa doesn't do enough damage to work with her no cc kit and her kit haven't enough burst to make it work with such weak aa...
    TOP 3 most stupid things i've ever see in this forum:
    she can do 1000 dmg at level 3 by just her 2-and passive
    her 3 should be more like medusa moving backwards movement penalty reduced only by 50%
    Her ult now is her 2 but with lower damage but same cooldown!
    my YouTube channel

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    Senior Member Chosen Drakonasx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    to be honest, i didn't read the whole text, but i read main part about their "strategy"... and all those things breaks into a pieces when you look how they balanced one single god

    im talking about Sol.

    instead of finding what exactly was an issue, they just reduced every number in her kit, then solved actuall problem(poly proc in her 2), then just "nah, lets nerf her more, ppl still think she is OP", and they totaly removed several things from her kit... even when she was considered as "balanced", they nerfed her again(that "inbuilded fatalis" removing). then they saw she was considered as "trash" by players(even in pro scene) and like "ok, lets fix some things we didn't fix before and say it was a buff". im talking about that "selfheal buff" and "ult buff". they didn't buff her selfheal, they fixed it, because 5% of missing hp at rank 1 didn't cause anything but laugh. they didn't buff her ult, they fixed it, because for how hard it is to land all 8 hits of this ability without any hard cc in her kit, her ult's old damage was incredibly low.

    finaly we got a god, who positioned by Hi-Rez as "using a mixture or abilities and basic attacks to deal massive amount of damage in a short period of time" - exact words from her god reveal video, but in a fact we have a god, that can deal damage, but can't kill someone without help of team. she was made to be ability-aa hybrid, like Fenrir, but her aa doesn't do enough damage to work with her no cc kit and her kit haven't enough burst to make it work with such weak aa...
    Even after the buffs she is B tier at best, the fatalis effect is what made her flaws a lot smaller and it was what made people think she is actually really good in S3. I loved the fatalis effect she had because i could fool around with her kit a ton and she seemed great, even when you said she wasn't. Like using my 3 with Fatalis, then 1 at close range and my 2 before i dissasperate. Now she is just horrible and i refuse to build Fatalis on her when she already has puny AA damage. She deserves quite a lot more AA damage and her 1 really could stand to be a tad bit bigger or it could be deployable like the Fire Giant's aoe attack. I have played her and even if i did well, most of her damage was for securing kills like her ult or poking like her 2. And even though people say her early game is good, her early damage is indeed horrible while she falls off lategame due to her AA tickling gods with a full build over 600 power.

    Overall, you are right and people FINALLY realised that. After a few months or maybe even a year..... Seriously, her 1 is still bad at healing but it's not that horrible, her 2 does not proc ANYTHING so it's literally nothing in the game when it comes to terminology, her 3 has lost everything that made her fun and the stupid idea to give it more movement speed was idiotic when everybody knows you level her 3 last. It's like only a tiny part of her kit is actually decent, like her 2 and 4 and her 1's heat, but even those skills have severe flaws, eesh..... Her 3 is a super delayed escape and while it looks bloated on paper, her 2 can get stuck on anything, her 1 is extremely situational with damage, same with the heal and it's just a heat generator. If they buff her AA damage in any way that makes her not hit towers harder. (like making it have additional dmg in ways that don't affect towers, which we actually have plenty of).

    But the small buffs Hirez could give her could be making her heat disappear slower and then maybe a larger buff to her horrible AA damage to gods and everything except structures. She really needs another decent damage source and she needed it for ages.

    Also, welcome back RippleApple, it's been ages until the last time you posted in this sub - forum.
    Last edited by Drakonasx; 05-21-2017 at 06:08 AM.
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    Junior Member Cupidhead Zanbo's Avatar
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    only gods who hurt too much is nox and a pene janus

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    Senior Member Prestigious RippleApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakonasx View Post
    Also, welcome back RippleApple, it's been ages until the last time you posted in this sub - forum.
    Why thank you. Turned out I had a severe magnesium deficiency. Among other things it causes mood swings. Hence why I was so bitchy and profane before. I'd say that's toned down by about half. I'm thinking clearer now.

    In terms of Sol, Sol is one of those gods I'm talking about, actually, in regards to number 2. You can't balance things just by adjusting numbers in some cases. It's when a god's kit has functional problems that prevent them from doing anything substantial unless their damage and confirmation are so ridiculous that they're effectively a one-ability god. Sol's 2 and Ah Puch's 2 are good examples of that. They don't like playing around with their kits so their default is to nerf them into the ground until they're not viable in conquest until they've dealt with problems that are easier to solve. The most telling example, I feel, is Hel; they have no idea how to actually fix her kit so they're basically just making her worthless so they don't have to think about it. I mean, she doesn't even have her diamond/legendary/gold skin reworks yet. That's pretty pathetic.

    Back to Sol though. Her basics are kind of trash until late-game. Her ult isn't really the best teamfight ult because it's like amc's honey and thus hard to aim. At that, her ult wants you to build damage instead of attack speed, so it's not even an adc's ult. And her 3, while having useful cc immunity, is only a speed buff at the end of the day. Compare this to Artemis. Another unsafe pick. However, she has tons of cc for her team, an attack speed steroid she can activate at any point she wants, good poke just like Sol and a teamfight ult that can set things up and peel for her rather well.

    Sol lacks utility, is what I'm saying. If not utility, then damage. And if you raise her damage it becomes impossible to box her because of her poke. They wanted a really cool kit but they kind of ended up with a hard-to-balance clusterF.
    Last edited by RippleApple; 05-22-2017 at 02:28 PM.

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    Senior Member Chosen BakaCircle9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    In terms of Sol, Sol is one of those gods I'm talking about, actually, in regards to number 2. You can't balance things just by adjusting numbers in some cases.
    well, removing of several things from her kit wasn't good idea either, isn't?

    like they removed her stun. simple question: there was any logical reason to do this? simple answer - no. that stun was hardest cc to use in the whole game. Hi-Rez argumented that stun removing as "her escape was too potent with this"... but they forget the fact, that a plyer who are so dumb to not watch his steps, to not have any timing, to not step a side when he allready taking damage from that fire trail, difinitely deserved to get stunned.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    It's when a god's kit has functional problems that prevent them from doing anything substantial unless their damage and confirmation are so ridiculous that they're effectively a one-ability god.
    the only functional problems of Sol kit was a way her passive buffs her aa danage. additional % of total aa damage isn't good idea at all.

    but hi-Rez main problem is a fact, that they don't discuss with community, don't read official forum of their game and can't simple addmit their mistakes. i said this, because community suggested A LOT to balance her even in first months after release. but just as allways when it comes to balance - nobody cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    Sol's 2 and Ah Puch's 2 are good examples of that.
    nope, those two abilities aren't even close. Ah Puch 2 is much easier to land just because a fact, that enemy is allready slowed to the hell by his 1 and may be also Gem of Isolation. but Sol 2 is her main and only usefull cc, so enemies aren't cc'ed when you use it. also Ah Puch 2 isn't easy af to miss when enemy is at close range, his 2 can't be blocked by everything, unlike Sol 2... Sol 2 is much more limited in using, than Ah Puch 2, even if you count a fact, that he must use it on coerpses.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    They don't like playing around with their kits so their default is to nerf them into the ground until they're not viable in conquest until they've dealt with problems that are easier to solve.
    yes, and this is their second main problem.

    but the problem when it comes to Sol is a fact, that they keep making stupid mistakes over and over: they removed poly proc and it made her from op to almost balanced, then they thought it could be a good idea to remove something else... and after this stun removing made her from slightly over balance to slightly under balance, they didn't find a better idea than remove something else again...

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    Back to Sol though. Her basics are kind of trash until late-game.
    tbh, her aa are trash even late-game, at least compared to any hunter of gods like Chronos or Freya.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    Her ult isn't really the best teamfight ult because it's like amc's honey and thus hard to aim. At that, her ult wants you to build damage instead of attack speed, so it's not even an adc's ult.
    actually, her ult is fine, may be another small damage buff and it will be in an area of my personal "effort-reward" standart. but the problem of her ult is knockback. the problem itself is that this knockback is a real knockback - it pushes enemy back, back in this case means away from next hit of this ult, and this is not ok. any other type of hard cc could be better for her ult(which was suggested by community on pair with ult rework long time ago). or they could make it push enemies to next hit of her ult. if you think last idea is not ok, look at Hades, his fear makes enemies run to him, while real fear should make them run away from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    And her 3, while having useful cc immunity, is only a speed buff at the end of the day.
    nah, her 3 is fine, it takes a skill, it takes a timing, it takes a brain if you use if offencively. and it still punishes idiots who walking on that fire trail or use ults when she is about to get invincible, this thing i like more than anything in her 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    Sol lacks utility, is what I'm saying. If not utility, then damage.
    yeah, i know the feeling when you play her and think she miss something. when you build her aa-oriented, she miss damage, when you buld power she miss attack speed, when you try hybrid she also miss something... it's allways like that.

    P.S. played assault a few days ago, random gived my a Scylla... it was so easy to play her after Sol. even her ult after Sol ult feels like if it would be global... but Scylla at the same time is better in terms of damage. it's just unfair.
    Last edited by BakaCircle9; 05-23-2017 at 09:37 AM.
    TOP 3 most stupid things i've ever see in this forum:
    she can do 1000 dmg at level 3 by just her 2-and passive
    her 3 should be more like medusa moving backwards movement penalty reduced only by 50%
    Her ult now is her 2 but with lower damage but same cooldown!
    my YouTube channel

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    Senior Member Prestigious RippleApple's Avatar
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    I don't think your arguments regarding Sol's kit are rooted in fact. Sol's 2 functions as a high-confirmation poke ability and it does its job very well. To deny that is to deny reality. The stun was pointless because only an idiot walked on her trail before and only an idiot walks on her trail now. Her kit is functionally bad.

    You made a good point regarding her ult, though, so good job on that.

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    Senior Member Chosen Drakonasx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    Why thank you. Turned out I had a severe magnesium deficiency. Among other things it causes mood swings. Hence why I was so bitchy and profane before. I'd say that's toned down by about half. I'm thinking clearer now.
    Great to hear that. I am glad you are back because i was always looking forward to having discussions with you due to the fact that i enjoy them, they are full of information and facts. Also, we need more experienced players talking in the forums, can't let reddit and discord get all the glory, can we? Oh and i actually didn't quite notice the profanity or sour behaviour on your part, i thought it was just something that happens to people when they get irritated over something. It probably wasn't that horrible if i haven't seen it as a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by RippleApple View Post
    I don't think your arguments regarding Sol's kit are rooted in fact. Sol's 2 functions as a high-confirmation poke ability and it does its job very well. To deny that is to deny reality. The stun was pointless because only an idiot walked on her trail before and only an idiot walks on her trail now. Her kit is functionally bad.

    You made a good point regarding her ult, though, so good job on that.
    Well, i guess it's time to hear it from another Sol fanboy - me. xd

    Her kit has always been inherently flawed and Hirez were afraid of buffing her for the longest time. All of reddit, when i made a post about Sol and Chronos, said that they both are fine with the excuse that pros made them work. Frankly, they can make anything work, Anhur jungle? Go ahead! Chronos is good , he is an annoying little bastard i absolutely adore (that's funny when i only started to really use him after his fatalis removal, but that's another discussion i would love to have, actually). But Sol? Haha, i would be lying if i said i loved her current underwhelming state. Maybe she works in Conquest, but i am so afraid of Conquest that i'd rather just stay an Arena and Clash main because i really am confused about when i always, freaking always get either solo or jungle. I have the needed knowledge, but knowledge alone is useless when it doesn't go hand-to-hand with experience, which i severely lack in Conquest. While my first 2 games were great and simply divine, i had amazing teammates that showed me the ropes and the changes to the meta, this is why i am at least trying to Conquest (they still give me solo, seriously, solo lane for a guy who avoids solo just because it's hard for him is just so unfair. Jungle, on the other hand, is my home).

    Oh, i went off topic, sorry. But i feel like the Chronos buffs made him stronger than ever and he just rocks so hard, i see why Rainbowsplat loves Freya and Chronos so much, i despise Freya, but Chronos is amazing, so we don't need to talk much about him. Sol, on the other hand, is indeed lackluster, but people say that she is fine, even though i see it as "she is fine because we don't want her buffed". That's reddit for you, eesh. Same with Artemis, they have said her mana costs are fine even though new hunters get the best mana control possible and they are good all game. Heck, it's obvious her 3 costs too much for her smallest mana pool and mp5 in the whole hunter class, but that's not the topic at hand either. I have been going around Sol because i want to show how people really care a ton about Chronos and Artemis and say they are fine, while they completely want to ignore Sol and let her rot.

    Now about the actual Sol problems. Yes, she has good early clear, very good in fact, her 3 offers immunity to anything in the whole game, her ult has that cc that can cut off people from yourself and others while doing quite decent damage after the good ol' buff, her 1 can generate heat instantly and heal much better than before. That's nice, yet if i started to talk about every wrong thing in her kit, she might seem seriously underpowered. So let's start, her 2 and ult are the only real damaging abilities, nothing else can work for her in terms of damage. Even if i use her 1 to clear faster if i am safe, her 1 is just a tiny self heal and fuel for her passive, it has nothing more. I would prefer if her 1 actually was deployable like the Fire Giant's scorching circle so i could use it for damage, even if it was minimal. Her 2 can get stuck on anything, but the short cooldown, decent poke and overall damage just make me happy that she has at least something reliable in her kit. Her 3 with fatalis was the most fun thing about her because i could use EVERY thing in her kit to stellar success. For example, i loved to use her 3, then 1, then 2 in rapid succession and they die when i AA them. That's simple, beautiful and really fun while i can still move around them if i want to switch it up. But now her 3 is just immunity and a movement speed boost you won't level until it's the only skilled that is unleveled. Her ult would be a really great ult, actually, if the Aoe was larger so the damage would be more justified along with the crowd control it has. Even the crowd control would be justified if only it had an aoe increase. If not that, then her ult could deploy faster so i could surround gods in it or cut them off reliably faster. I would accept a rework to her ult and 1 if it makes her 1 deployable and damaging while her ult becomes something at least similiar to a supernova rather than a rain of light and explosive flames.
    Last edited by Drakonasx; 05-23-2017 at 11:23 AM.
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