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Thread: Jiraiya, The Gallant

  1. #1
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    Jiraiya, The Gallant

    Jiraiya
    The Gallant



    The gallant shapeshifting ninja who fell in love with tsunade, a beautiful maiden who has mastered slug. his arch-enemy was orochimaru, who was once his follower that mastered serpent magic. orochimaru managed to poison Jiraiya and leave him for dead. luckily, one of his followers came to his rescue and... well... the story is cut short here (from what I could find) on a cliffhanger. nobody knows what happened to Jiraiya after those events. probably that same follower would go on to teach him the rasengan... heh...




    I actually wanted to take something from deviantart; something more fancy. but even though I knew this would happen, the only images I could find was the character from naruto, and I didn't want readers picturing him as the playable character but instead something that's more original.


    Pantheon: Japanese
    Type: melee, physical
    Role: assassin
    Pros: high single target damage, high mobility
    Weapon: kunai



    Stats:

    Health: 484 (+73)
    Mana: 259 (+40)
    Speed: 375
    Attack range: 12
    Attack speed: N/A
    Power: 39 (+2.2)
    Progression: N/A
    Physical protection: 16 (+3)
    Magical protection: 31 (+0.9)
    Hp5: 9.7 (+0.7)
    Mp5: 4.8 (+0.4)



    Passive:
    Serpent killer – Jiraiya ninja skills and familiarity with serpent nature have taught him how to deal with his targets with a single swift strike. Instead of having regular basic attacks, Jiraiya delivers a single basic attack that's equal in damage to 4 basic attacks. After delivering an attack, his can't deliver another attack for another 4 seconds. On-hit effects, including critical strikes, only apply the value of 1 basic attack. additional attack speed from various sources instead converts into damage.
    Ability 1:
    Shuriken Toss – Jiraiya throws a shuriken in a line, damaging the first enemy hit. Up to 5 charges of shuriken can be stored at max. Successful hits on enemy gods lower the cooldown of basic attacks by 1 second.
    Range: 50
    Damage: 10/40/70/100/130 (+50% of physical power)
    Cost: 60 mana
    Cooldown: 5s per charge
    Ability 2:
    Gulper – Jiraiya summons a giant toad right in front of him. After a 0.3 second delay, the toad will lash out its tongue, pulling in the first enemy god hit and swallowing (banishing) them for 0.5 seconds.
    range: 50
    damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+80% of physical power)
    Cost: 75 mana
    Cooldown: 15s

    Ability 3:
    Amphibian emulation – Jiraiya submerges at his location. While submerged, he cannot move, stealthed and cannot be revealed by any means. The only indicator to his location is a narrow bamboo tube coming out of the ground. Jiraiya can deliver a lethal strike to enemies that come too close to him. He can remain submerged indefinitely and cancelling the ability removes 3 seconds off of its cooldown. this ability can only be used out of combat
    damage: 100/170/240/310/380 (+65% of physical power)
    Cost: 70mana
    Cooldown: 18s
    Ultimate:
    Gallant shapeshifting – Jiraiya transforms into a giant toad. While in that form, he cannot do anything but leap great distances, damaging enemies as he lands. Jiraiya can leap as much as needed until he cancels the ability, with each leap costing mana and having an interval of 0.5 second between each leap. The leaps cannot jump over map terrain, only player-made ones.
    Radius: 10
    Leap range: 50/55/60/65/70 units
    Damage: 50/75/100/125/150 (+15% of physical power).
    Cost: 40 mana per leap
    Cooldown: 20s


    Notes:
    1. The stats and output of the abilities are always subject to change, depending on whether the character is too strong or too weak.
    2. I know that you can't submerge in soil. But if Sobek can do it, than so can Jiraiya. Or any other god, for that matter.
    3. to exemplify the passive: let's say that an item gives you 20% attack speed. so in Jiraiya's case, it'll be 20 damage. just remove the "%".


    Creative Insight:
    as a start, the prime feature of Jiraiya is that he is a ninja. ninjas are assassins by default, so it would be only right to make him an assassin. one might look at this archetype and think "ok... so it's a ninja. I can't imagine taking that concept and making it into something interesting in smite. they'll probably just throw shuriken and hide in the shadows". but there's one defining feature that makes Jiraiya distinct in addition to being yet another ninja: his usage of toad magic (whatever the hell that means). more so, Jiraiya's familiarity with the skills of his two associates, tsunade and orochimaru, have also given him knowledge in other forms of methodologies, namely and slug and serpent magic, respectively. with this concept, I wanted to stay true to his lore while at the same time incorporating features of what one would see as a "yet another ninja". and although I originally wanted to include something that showed his relationship with tsunade, or more specifically slug magic, I couldn't come up with something appropriate, although the association with orochimaru does show.
    fun fact about the passive: for those that might not now, vemomous snakes, despite their intimidaing and dangerous nature, are actually quite fragile. a sturdy stomp from a hunter's boot can easily snap their delicate spine (not so "fun" actually when you think about it). this was mainly the inspiration for the passive, in how both the assassination skills of a ninja and the fragile stature of a serpent inspire an attack that can deal lethal amounts of damage in a single blow.
    Last edited by Razrtongue; 05-02-2017 at 07:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    So, let's look at this. His is not a passive, it's a unique basic attack labeled as one. That's all well and good, being that it's a mechanically unique AA, except that he doesn't really have a true passive. He should have a passive separate from his unique basic attack.

    On the subject of his passive, the numbers are just too extreme. 5 seconds is a long time to not be able to fire a basic attack, making him worse at boxing than Loki; and crits or not, he can almost one-shot a target. I would recommend making it do 100% damage with a fixed 1 second CD, with the current attack speed damage multiplier being in place; in fact, if you want to replace this passive, there's your unique basic attack right there. The restriction on crit damage should stay because, with double shurikens and DB, you've got one-shots.

    His 1 has too much damage potential in the early-game. He's clearly built to be a late-game carry, so he should have a poor early-game to match. The passive charges component is fine and all, it just means he can do 750 +250% damage with one ability on a physical god with relatively low risk.

    His 2 is fine, but his 3 could stand a nerf to its base damage.

    His ult has wayyyy too much mobility packed in. Each leap needs its own CD, otherwise it's just too much. Something that keeps it spammy will do, but not lower than 10 seconds.

  3. #3
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    So, let's look at this. His is not a passive, it's a unique basic attack labeled as one. That's all well and good, being that it's a mechanically unique AA, except that he doesn't really have a true passive. He should have a passive separate from his unique basic attack.

    On the subject of his passive, the numbers are just too extreme. 5 seconds is a long time to not be able to fire a basic attack, making him worse at boxing than Loki; and crits or not, he can almost one-shot a target. I would recommend making it do 100% damage with a fixed 1 second CD, with the current attack speed damage multiplier being in place; in fact, if you want to replace this passive, there's your unique basic attack right there. The restriction on crit damage should stay because, with double shurikens and DB, you've got one-shots.

    His 1 has too much damage potential in the early-game. He's clearly built to be a late-game carry, so he should have a poor early-game to match. The passive charges component is fine and all, it just means he can do 750 +250% damage with one ability on a physical god with relatively low risk.

    His 2 is fine, but his 3 could stand a nerf to its base damage.

    His ult has wayyyy too much mobility packed in. Each leap needs its own CD, otherwise it's just too much. Something that keeps it spammy will do, but not lower than 10 seconds.
    thanks for the feedback. lemme just break down your post so I can respond to each part accordingly.

    So, let's look at this. His is not a passive, it's a unique basic attack labeled as one. That's all well and good, being that it's a mechanically unique AA, except that he doesn't really have a true passive. He should have a passive separate from his unique basic attack.
    much like how you examplified in the contemporary contest thread, cernunnos also falls under this logic, so if the devs can do that "mistake" than there's really no problem at all. I'm quite satisfied with how this turned out.

    the subject of his passive, the numbers are just too extreme. 5 seconds is a long time to not be able to fire a basic attack, making him worse at boxing than Loki; and crits or not, he can almost one-shot a target. I would recommend making it do 100% damage with a fixed 1 second CD, with the current attack speed damage multiplier being in place; in fact, if you want to replace this passive, there's your unique basic attack right there. The restriction on crit damage should stay because, with double shurikens and DB, you've got one-shots.
    I think it's pretty conspicuous that he's a burst assassin (like serqet), rather than a DPS one (like kali). other than that, he's not design to be a boxer, or at least not for persistant boxing. he's supposed to be a high-stakes type of character. besides, the basic attacks combined with the shuriken mechanics should more than allow him to hold his own against an enemy. if that's not enough, I thought of maybe adding some new mechanic like "every basic attack restores a charge of shuriken", but he'll probably just be OP like that.

    His ult has wayyyy too much mobility packed in. Each leap needs its own CD, otherwise it's just too much. Something that keeps it spammy will do, but not lower than 10 seconds.
    about that... I actually wanted to add a 0.5 interval between each leap. but that somehow slipped my mind. thanks for reminding me though.

    other than all of these specifics, I'll nerf the abilities that need one. if his basic attack damage is too high, than I'll just have to nerf the damage. just tell if that's what this concept needs.

  4. #4
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    changes:
    |||||
    passive:
    removed the "attack speed that acts as a multiplier for damage" feature. I thought it would be interesting, but I think it would be too OP (imagine having your damage multiplied by 2.5!). instead, Jiraiya's attack speed appears on his stats as "N/A" and additional attack speed gained from different sources is converted into flat damage.
    |||||
    1:
    nerfed the damage in early game.
    |||||
    3:
    nerfed the damage in late game
    added a feature where the ability can only be used out of combat. this is actually something I wanted to add initially, but I forgot.
    |||||
    4:
    added so that there's an interval of 0.5 between each leap. this is also something I wanted to add initially, but I forgot.

  5. #5
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    added creative insight.
    as usual, feedback would be greatly appreciated.

  6. #6
    New Member Minion MathCity10-20's Avatar
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    I still think there's a huge problem with the passive. 5 seconds of no basic attacks is too much. If you want that, you'll need to rework his second ability to be focused on a single target, so that it can kind of replace a basic attack. Then, give it a cooldown as low as He Bo's 1. Only then can it be a viable kit, since many of his abilities are utility based and he has the health of an assassin.

  7. #7
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MathCity10-20 View Post
    I still think there's a huge problem with the passive. 5 seconds of no basic attacks is too much. If you want that, you'll need to rework his second ability to be focused on a single target, so that it can kind of replace a basic attack. Then, give it a cooldown as low as He Bo's 1. Only then can it be a viable kit, since many of his abilities are utility based and he has the health of an assassin.
    well his 1 decreases the CD by 1 second. if that's not enough, than I'll make adjustment. I thought of maybe making it so that basic attacks restore 1 charge of shuriken. whaddya think?

  8. #8
    New Member Minion MathCity10-20's Avatar
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    That's not the real issue. If you want to make his basics more powerful but less frequent, maybe do 1 basic is 3x damage and you have to wait 2s for another. Something with a ratio that actually benefits him would be smart. But I do like your idea about basics reducing cooldowns, you should try it.

  9. #9
    Member Follower Razrtongue's Avatar
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    changed the number of basic attacks and the basic attack cooldown from 5 to 4.

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