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Thread: Why Joust is a failed map

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    Member Follower hydrogeneration's Avatar
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    Why Joust is a failed map

    I never play Joust and I got a reason for that. The problem with joust 3v3 is that the map is designed to whoever gets a deicide wins the game. this modes gameplay logic has nothing to do with tactics. If the enemy turtles at the titan and we still have 1 tower up with full health and they get a deicide they can just instantly kill that tower, phoenix and titan in 1 go. How does that make the game tactical in any way? It doesn't. A game should not be able to end that fast if you're ahead.

    It's just abusing the small map layout and res timer and it means that the tower and phoenix are obsolete to the matches outcome. This is just a faulty design decision. Something like this could never happen in assault or Conquest because they have that 1 extra tower per lane and are overall bigger maps with longer travel time. OR a way to fix this is to make it so that after both enemy tower and phoenix are down and you kill the Bull King The Bull King will come and help you tank the titan or the enemy players whatever that stands in its way. This way you atleast get a chance by distracting the enemy when your facing a turtling team with an insta kill mage god like poseidon for example.
    Last edited by hydrogeneration; 03-20-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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    Same thing happens in Clash pretty often, but honestly it CAN happen in assault and yes even conquest as well. It will hardly ever happen in conquest since you need the right team composition for it but it can happen. Thing is if you are experiencing this in joust, you've hit late game. Joust can be won in under 10 minutes, at that time this can't happen because their is just no way to push all the way through before the death timers are up. If you are over 20minutes in though everyone is getting their full builds and a death is a long time, this makes ending the game extremely easy. 2 people take the tower while the 3rd kills bull and you get to take phoenix and titan without even waiting for minion wave. Some people take phoenix without waiting for minions regardless of whether or not they've taken bull demon, but they gotta have a lot of physical defense or a team full of penetration for that.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Foxkid_8's Avatar
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    Even when Joust was a medieval map you could push hard in late game once a deicide happened. The only thing to not like about the current joust map in my opinion is the bull being super cheap considering its not hard to kill the moment someone hits level 10 for the kind of advantage it gives afterwards (increased damage, recovery, and a tower lock up).

    I personally feel you had to be more skillful in the older maps than the current because they've enabled backdooring so much more now compared to previous.
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    It actually doesn't give a damage increase, I thought it did at first too but my friend pointed it out and sure enough my damage wasn't higher. Still the tower lock up alone is enough for it to be overpowered. And with Medusa you can solo it with boots and hastened fatalis, don't even need level 10 you just backpedal the whole time. Though taking it out that early isn't really worth that much, everyone's damage usually ain't high enough to take the tower down that early. It would let you push the enemy extremely hard if you got an early game composition though, especially if your opponents are all squishy.

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    Senior Member Prestigious BobKetchup's Avatar
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    Why is it failed? Maybe because of how weak is the Bull? Or maybe because of how useless and weak is the Titan? But nah, it doesn't seem failed to me...
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    Member Follower hydrogeneration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GogetaAR View Post
    Why is it failed? Maybe because of how weak is the Bull? Or maybe because of how useless and weak is the Titan? But nah, it doesn't seem failed to me...
    It's about neither things you mentioned it's because the map is too short. You can literally get from your own titan to the enemy titan with both enemy phoenix and tower up in 10-15 seconds. 1 Deicide and your fucked all that hard work and 20 minutes of trying to be tactic and get ahead of the enemy team for nothing. Thats how this map works. Your team can be superior in tactics and k/d whole game but if the enemy can deicide you at their own titan "miles" away from your titan it doesn't matter they won. This game play mechanic has nothing to do with tactics and this is why it failed.

    Also I'm NOT saying the medieval map was better I hated that map and it was even worse then this map. The turtling in that map is ridiculous. A way to fix this map is for example when you kill the bull king after both their phoenix and their tower is down the bull king should tank the Titan for you now that's what I call gameplay mechanics. OR just add an extra tower in the lane like I said before to stretch time and space.
    The idea with the bull king is a bir like in siege and to be honest Siege even feels like a more tought out map then This Joust crap.

    This deicide and instantly rush the lane/titan nonsense is not how it should be played. Because it gives you 0 chance to redeem yourself after 20 minutes of hard work keeping both your phoenix and tower up warding everything etcetc.
    Last edited by hydrogeneration; 03-20-2017 at 12:21 AM.

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    Ok, after a deicide they can go through and kill your tower, phoenix and titan while your team is on death timers. But don't exaggerate it so much, they don't get all the way to your titan in 15 seconds. Depending on their team they mighy kill your tower and phoenix that fast, but not when they have to walk all the way over to them. Besides, as previously stated the same thing happens in other maps too. Adding a 3rd tower isn't going to change this. Maybe you should just, not have an entire team jump under the titan. You usually have some ranged characters, have them shoot it from a little ways back or something. Attack the enemy when they push out some, if they wont come out at all just either have the tanky person(if you have one) tank a bit and go back and forth to wittle their titan doen or if they are also full build and everything anyway just let them turtle. Minions get stronger over time, and with them hiding the whole time it'd be easy to keep their phoenix down, eventually those minions will be enough to let you poke the titan without needing to tank. Might take an hour but you dont need to dive in and give them the opportunity to comeback.

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    Member Worshipper Alphadios's Avatar
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    Failed because it does not fit the 3vs3 scenario like the old medieval joust did. This time you have a relative weak jungle boss with a weak(sometimes) buff.
    That buff of 4% hp5 and 2% mp5 is next to useless on a small map like the current chinese joust.
    I rather go back to base to heal and recover mana than wait on lane clearing or doing anyother shit.
    On the larger maps like Conquest yes... such a buff can be usefull because of the large distances.

    The thing is that even the tower shutdown mechanic is not that great because you have only one and a phoenix, most of the times you crush their towers without using the bull demon.
    If properly farmed, you can win a game witout even trying to kill the demon, except maybe... just to not let the enemies have it.

    So what i sugest here ? Look: We need to give that cattle-man a purpose. So first we need to redesign the map, not much, just a bit.
    Add the old medieval map as Joust 3vs3 and this one redesign it to be called "Journey" like in... Journey to the West.

    How would be the new mod Journey?
    It will be like this: First of all add more towers, maybe one more tower, maybe 2 would be ok.
    Since the maps would be much bigger it would fit the "Journey" name.
    And also would give the Bull Demon King a true purpose. Now it won't be the trolling wanna-be objective anymore, but a real necessity for the team's advance through the map. Having more towers means a greater need for a Bull Demon King.
    Expanding the jungle to have more buffs would also help the mod. I really miss the attack speed buff i once had.(I know it's still available on arena and siege)

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    Member Worshipper StarLordNova's Avatar
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    The bull is a piece of crap lol, whichever team takes it down means an advantage for them sometimes deciding the game.
    We now need Kevin Sorbo as Kevin Sorbo in the game.

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