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Thread: An ideia to get rid of classes

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    An ideia to get rid of classes

    Rodin The Wise proposed that we get rid of classes altogether. It dumbs down players, they get dogmatic, expecting all guardians and warriors to be pure tanks and all mages to go full glass cannon. While gods in the same class can be wildly different.

    I wholeheartedly agree, so I thought of a different approach.

    How about this: instead of classes, we get tags. They already exist, like "high crowd control", but we may make them more obvious and add some others. The player can filter by those tags instead of classes.

    But the big twist is here: players can tag their own gods. If those tags get a significant amount of votes from the community, they'll be added for everyone to see.

    Now just some examples on how I would tag gods. That's me, Hi-Rez can start with more basic stuff, like classing Athena as only "Support", then, by community vote, she could end up with "Jungler", like I'm proposing.

    Geb
    Support, Defensive, Resilent*, Medium Mobility, Wide Area Crowd Control, Medium Base Damage, Low Scaling Damage

    Athena
    Support, Jungler, Defensive, Offensive, Resilent, High Mobility, Small Area Crowd Control, High Base Damage, High Scaling Damage

    Ymir
    Support, Jungler, Offensive, Very Low Mobility, Small Area Crowd Control, High Base Damage, High Scaling Damage

    *Resilent means free defensive improvements, which Ymir doesn't have.


    EDIT - PLEASE READ
    Lots of people are saying that this is too radical and not user friendly, confusing for newbies. The fact is, classes mean something (ex: warrior = physical melee, higher defensive stats than assassin). Just not enough.

    So you convinced me that we don't need to remove classes. But I maintain that we need tags. How user friendly that can be is something to the design department - I believe it can be made in a clear way.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 07-02-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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    Senior Member Prestigious McKnightrider's Avatar
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    No, i like classes and it works better in the game. What benefit do you get from not calling Hercules a warrior? None really. It'd just more of a hassle for new players and conquest is already a struggle for people, the fact that there's people who play the game and avoid conquest altogether is a problem. Categorizing gods in classes doesn't hurt the game, removing classes does.

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKnightrider View Post
    No, i like classes and it works better in the game. What benefit do you get from not calling Hercules a warrior? None really. It'd just more of a hassle for new players and conquest is already a struggle for people, the fact that there's people who play the game and avoid conquest altogether is a problem. Categorizing gods in classes doesn't hurt the game, removing classes does.
    Well, if what I'm proposing is too much, keep the classes. But still add the filterable and votable tags so people may understand that not all warriors/guardians/mages etc. are the same.
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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    I feel like "AA-based" and "ability-based" should be tags. It would have really helped me when I first tried Osiris to know I'm not supposed to focus on using my abilities. Hell, going into this game, I didn't even think AA gods would be a thing.
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    Member Follower Bodyintruder's Avatar
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    Really appreciate your suggestion, thumbs up for that. Personally I've experienced how well this approach works in other MOBAs. It would widen the variety of picks due to the issue, that a big chunk of the playerbase limit their own mindset by only considering the classes.

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    Senior Member Infamous PapaRodin's Avatar
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    First, let us agree on never calling me "Rodin the wise" ever again.

    Second, the process of getting rid of class tags can/should come in steps, not all at ones. For starters, reorganizing each and every gods description tags and having them give away more detail would be very helpful.

    It has to be simple, yet clear and on point.

    Something like

    For Cabrakan as an example:

    Primary tags:
    Magical, Close Range

    Secondary tags:
    High CC, High Burst damage, High Defense, Limited Mobility

    For Aphrodite, as another example:

    Primary tags:
    Magical, Mid Range

    Secondary Tags:
    Medium CC, Healing, Immobile, Supportive

    For Anhur, as a final example:

    Primary Tags:
    Physical, Long Range

    Secondary Tags:
    High CC, High Single Target Damage, Strong Zoning, High Mobility, No Disadvantages


    Do that for all gods, do it appropriatly and we are much closer to being able to get rid of class tags.
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    Senior Member Prestigious Najh98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKnightrider View Post
    No, i like classes and it works better in the game. What benefit do you get from not calling Hercules a warrior? None really. It'd just more of a hassle for new players and conquest is already a struggle for people, the fact that there's people who play the game and avoid conquest altogether is a problem. Categorizing gods in classes doesn't hurt the game, removing classes does.
    Ya, I'd rather not play conquest. It takes too long and the people are toxic. I'm not even going to play it with the gem event going on now.

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    First, let us agree on never calling me "Rodin the wise" ever again.

    Second, the process of getting rid of class tags can/should come in steps, not all at ones. For starters, reorganizing each and every gods description tags and having them give away more detail would be very helpful.

    It has to be simple, yet clear and on point.

    Something like

    For Cabrakan as an example:

    Primary tags:
    Magical, Close Range

    Secondary tags:
    High CC, High Burst damage, High Defense, Limited Mobility

    For Aphrodite, as another example:

    Primary tags:
    Magical, Mid Range

    Secondary Tags:
    Medium CC, Healing, Immobile, Supportive

    For Anhur, as a final example:

    Primary Tags:
    Physical, Long Range

    Secondary Tags:
    High CC, High Single Target Damage, Strong Zoning, High Mobility, No Disadvantages


    Do that for all gods, do it appropriatly and we are much closer to being able to get rid of class tags.
    Ok, Rodin The Humble, but what do you think of my idea to be able to tag your gods and then those tags could appear for other players, if they get statistically significant.
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead JackSpider's Avatar
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    I think they explain it well in the tutorials how classes work. Are there any gods you think are misclassed?

    Video games that have items, stats, abilities, level, etc. In those types of games you need to study and play a lot to know how everything works. Its not made for kids. Thats what new players need to understand. You search "smite builds" on google and you will learn about smitefire.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSpider View Post
    I think they explain it well in the tutorials how classes work. Are there any gods you think are misclassed?

    Video games that have items, stats, abilities, level, etc. In those types of games you need to study and play a lot to know how everything works. Its not made for kids. Thats what new players need to understand. You search "smite builds" on google and you will learn about smitefire.
    I said that, optionally, we can keep the classes.

    But they say too little. The only absolutes we can have are things like "guardians are tanky mages". That's all. They may be great supports or terrible supports, they may kill nothing or everything in sight. Warriors are tanky melee physicals, but, again, they can go from full assassin-like single target damage monsters to very supportive resilent tanks, to mild late game annoyances. And so on.

    As Rodin pointed out, the only class which is very coherent is the hunters. You build them squishy with lifesteal. But still you shouldn't get crits on Skadi, (too much) attack speed on Apollo, no CDR on Cupid etc.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 07-01-2016 at 12:36 PM.
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