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Thread: Nerf or Remove Fatalis, please.

  1. #11
    Member Follower Tv_iTsunami's Avatar
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    Has anyone mentioned Midguardian yet? It slows both the MS and AS of an enemy if they hit you. It makes it harder for Gods with Fatalis to keep up and hit you consistently, conversely, I heard that hard CC is a good way to stop people from trying to hit you.
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    Senior Member Chosen JustRun175's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tv_iTsunami View Post
    Has anyone mentioned Midguardian yet? It slows both the MS and AS of an enemy if they hit you. It makes it harder for Gods with Fatalis to keep up and hit you consistently, conversely, I heard that hard CC is a good way to stop people from trying to hit you.
    Midgardian is chance based it may proc often if they have high attack speed but there goes an item in your build. Hard CC you'd have to turn around to use unless it's ground target with a delayed activation.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    This sounds more like a baka kali cry then a hasted cry.

    Most Gods with this item either lack dmg, tank, lifesteal or utility.

    About frost vs hasted. Frost is to keep people in place, reduce AS, so team can catch up etc and is well suited for tanks and initiators it should be seen as a support item.

    Hasted on the other hand is to gain movement dominance and is needed on some gods that badly need their auto attacks to perform to be able to initiate, juke while doing so etc. If you compare to exec that gives al in team a great phys pene boost vs the hit target hasted does almost nothing.

    If you are a mage or similar getting shit on by baka or kali.

    1. Use stuns and similar during their ult.
    2. Use sprint
    3. Get poly and hit them back in the face and simply nuke them to pieces before they kill you or your team.
    4. Get midguardian mail.
    5. Get runic or witch blade.
    6. Use your escape when they ult, harder against baka though.
    7. Do all of the above.
    8. Rely on team to save you.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 06-30-2016 at 05:17 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    This sounds more like a baka kali cry then a hasted cry.

    Most Gods with this item either lack dmg, tank, lifesteal or utility.

    About frost vs hasted. Frost is to keep people in place, reduce AS, so team can catch up etc and is well suited for tanks and initiators it should be seen as a support item.

    Hasted on the other hand is to gain movement dominance and is needed on some gods that badly need their auto attacks to perform to be able to initiate, juke while doing so etc. If you compare to exec that gives al in team a great phys pene boost vs the hit target hasted does almost nothing.

    If you are a mage or similar getting shit on by baka or kali.

    1. Use stuns and similar during their ult.
    2. Use sprint
    3. Get poly and hit them back in the face and simply nuke them to pieces before they kill you or your team.
    4. Get midguardian mail.
    5. Get runic or witch blade.
    6. Use your escape when they ult, harder against baka though.
    7. Do all of the above.
    8. Rely on team to save you.
    So many issues here.

    1) not all gods have a stun, let alone hard cc.
    2) Sprint is rarely picked up by more then one or two people, having to rely on them being near you is just plain stupid. And if you are trying to run from Kali or Baka, Sprint will NOT be enough as the movement speed they are getting from Hastened, Boots and most likely stone cutting sword and their own sprint, will far outpace you regardless.
    3) Poly isn't always viable in a build, there are ways to make it work but you are sacrificing power and penetration to use it probably.
    4) Midgardian Mail takes up a valuable spot in your inventory for lackluster defense stats and a somewhat decent passive. For mages and hunters building defensive items is usually advised against as a single power or penetration item removed from a build can screw them over.
    5) See number 4 - Takes up valuable slots that could be better used, especially if you are trying to outdamage someone.
    6) Not all gods have escapes (Ra, Skadi, Kukulkan, etc). And against certain gods, like Bakasura or Kali, its near impossible to make those escapes effective.
    7) See all of the above
    8) Relying on your team, while good in theory, 80% of the time, never works out unless you are playing with friends and in comms with them and even then, its not possible for your team to help you.

    And on to my next point, with the addition of the Phantom relic that gives a hastened effect, Fatalis at this point might as well be removed. A fatalis effect is very powerful and its even is in a lot of kits now. The effect is being handed out like candy. Erlang Shen is getting it in his kit, Jing Wei has it in her kit. Sol has it in her kit. Osiris has it in his kit. And several more as well. If as a hunter you need Fatalis to keep up to someone, you really need to rethink your strategy. Hunter abilites usually always include a way to slow down or stop an enemy in their tracks. Artemis has her traps and a slow and a good sized stun that can hit multiple gods, Sol has Stellar Burst and Supernova, Chronos as Stop Time and Accelerate (oh look another fatalis effect), Apollo has a mezz and a dash that knocks up and out and gives him and any teammates hit extra movement speed, Ullr has a stun, Chiron has a nice dash that he can fire basics in along with a slow on Masterful Shot and a very long range ult, AMC has a cripple and a honey slow that is extremely potent early game, Anhur has Shifting Sands and Impale, Cupid has 2 AoE stuns and a Massive Cripple AND a dash that increases attack speed, Hou Yi can stun and slow and knockup, Neith has several ways to root, slow and stun, Rama has a slow and a cripple, Xbal has a slow, blind and stun and Medusa has a stun and slow in one move.

    Hastened Fatalis is extremely potent and it is there to serve assassins/warriors who are basic attack based such as Bakasura and Kali as their abilities alone are (usually) not enough to keep up with enemies long enough to basic them to death. Anyways, if you are putting Fatalis on a hunter, you are giving up a slot to increase other stats. There are many items that are potent that increase power (or penetration) and attack speed. Asi, Executioner, Quin Sais, Ichival etc.

    In conclusion, its time for Fatalis to take its leave. Permanently. At this point it is not needed. Even for Kali and Bakasura with the new relics coming out. In point: If you don't have a fatalis effect in your kit or passive, you shouldn't need it AT ALL to do your job as the god you selected.
    Last edited by LinkNightblade; 07-02-2016 at 04:22 AM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Chosen JustRun175's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    So many issues here.

    1) not all gods have a stun, let alone hard cc.
    2) Sprint is rarely picked up by more then one or two people, having to rely on them being near you is just plain stupid. And if you are trying to run from Kali or Baka, Sprint will NOT be enough as the movement speed they are getting from Hastened, Boots and most likely stone cutting sword and their own sprint, will far outpace you regardless.
    3) Poly isn't always viable in a build, there are ways to make it work but you are sacrificing power and penetration to use it probably.
    4) Midgardian Mail takes up a valuable spot in your inventory for lackluster defense stats and a somewhat decent passive. For mages and hunters building defensive items is usually advised against as a single power or penetration item removed from a build can screw them over.
    5) See number 4 - Takes up valuable slots that could be better used, especially if you are trying to outdamage someone.
    6) Not all gods have escapes (Ra, Skadi, Kukulkan, etc). And against certain gods, like Bakasura or Kali, its near impossible to make those escapes effective.
    7) See all of the above
    8) Relying on your team, while good in theory, 80% of the time, never works out unless you are playing with friends and in comms with them and even then, its not possible for your team to help you.

    And on to my next point, with the addition of the Phantom relic that gives a hastened effect, Fatalis at this point might as well be removed. A fatalis effect is very powerful and its even is in a lot of kits now. The effect is being handed out like candy. Erlang Shen is getting it in his kit, Jing Wei has it in her kit. Sol has it in her kit. Osiris has it in his kit. And several more as well. If as a hunter you need Fatalis to keep up to someone, you really need to rethink your strategy. Hunter abilites usually always include a way to slow down or stop an enemy in their tracks. Artemis has her traps and a slow and a good sized stun that can hit multiple gods, Sol has Stellar Burst and Supernova, Chronos as Stop Time and Accelerate (oh look another fatalis effect), Apollo has a mezz and a dash that knocks up and out and gives him and any teammates hit extra movement speed, Ullr has a stun, Chiron has a nice dash that he can fire basics in along with a slow on Masterful Shot and a very long range ult, AMC has a cripple and a honey slow that is extremely potent early game, Anhur has Shifting Sands and Impale, Cupid has 2 AoE stuns and a Massive Cripple AND a dash that increases attack speed, Hou Yi can stun and slow and knockup, Neith has several ways to root, slow and stun, Rama has a slow and a cripple, Xbal has a slow, blind and stun and Medusa has a stun and slow in one move.

    Hastened Fatalis is extremely potent and it is there to serve assassins/warriors who are basic attack based such as Bakasura and Kali as their abilities alone are (usually) not enough to keep up with enemies long enough to basic them to death. Anyways, if you are putting Fatalis on a hunter, you are giving up a slot to increase other stats. There are many items that are potent that increase power (or penetration) and attack speed. Asi, Executioner, Quin Sais, Ichival etc.

    In conclusion, its time for Fatalis to take its leave. Permanently. At this point it is not needed. Even for Kali and Bakasura with the new relics coming out. In point: If you don't have a fatalis effect in your kit or passive, you shouldn't need it AT ALL to do your job as the god you selected.
    Let me repeat myself: Fatalis leaves/gets nerfed hard, frostbound becomes popular,anti slow becomes common,need cc to chase people. The Phase relic isn't worth a relic slot just for the fatalis effect. If all it did was that rarely anyone would get it. Fatalis still needed for hunters because otherwise all hunters would need cooldown,large mana capacity or lots of mp5 so they can spam abilties.

    Even on gods w fatalis in there kits fatalis is still in the popular section of items. Obviously spending mana just to have fatalis is dumb when you can get the item instead.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustRun175 View Post
    Let me repeat myself: Fatalis leaves/gets nerfed hard, frostbound becomes popular,anti slow becomes common,need cc to chase people. The Phase relic isn't worth a relic slot just for the fatalis effect. If all it did was that rarely anyone would get it. Fatalis still needed for hunters because otherwise all hunters would need cooldown,large mana capacity or lots of mp5 so they can spam abilties.

    Even on gods w fatalis in there kits fatalis is still in the popular section of items. Obviously spending mana just to have fatalis is dumb when you can get the item instead.
    Your last bit there, that is EXACTLY why it should be removed. You have your kit for a reason. USE IT. If you have to sacrifice a slot for a bit of extra attack speed and movement speed for an effect that is, now in a relic, and a myriad of other kits, you need to learn to play your god. Hastened Fatalis makes for good training wheels. Like I said, Hunters ALWAYS have ways to keep up, slow down, or HALT enemies in their tracks. Sometimes they have all 3 ways. While using your full kit early game is not usually the best idea, late game it should not be an issue at all. There are FAR better items then Hastened Fatalis. Yet some people seem to be under the delusion that Fatalis is a core item on all hunters and some assassins and it ISN'T. Far from it. For the reasons I stated above in this post and my last.

    Slowing people down is already a VERY common thing. Most gods, almost all, have a slow built in as well. One person on a team usually always picks up curse and, I'll give you a hint, its not for the anti-heal.

    Fatalis is a redundant item. The effect is being handed out like candy in both kits, and now a relic. Hastened used to be a unique effect and with it being added left, right and center to most everything now, the item should be straight up removed. And to be fair, I wouldn't mind seeing Frostbound Hammer being a chance proc instead of a on hit effect, that would balance it out if HF was removed. Like I said, slowing people down is already a thing but people will use Curse and Abilities to do it instead since Frostbound hammer has lackluster stats with a passive that is also very situational considering that slows are in pretty much every gods kit as well.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    takes up a valuable spot
    Not being open for sacrificing a slot for countering a specific threat is exactly the reason why we see these kind of threads.

    And even if we get hasted effect on a relic that is on a huge CD and if we talk Kali who wants to get kill after kill end game to carry the team that just sucks for Kali as after the effect is gone her effectiveness is gone.

    In conclusion, its time for Fatalis to take its leave. Permanently. At this point it is not needed.
    What if I want other relics then phantom then to compliment my hasted? No it has a valuable place for some Gods but it is a sacrifice in performance on most Gods as we already concluded, that doesn't mean it ain't has its place in some builds and in some scenarios. Removing it would just make the game less diverse and all upset balance to much.

    Feels like its only mages and hunters posting in this thread. Nerf frostbound, nerf fatalis... Really? What you are saying is basically this: I wanna be able to run around in circles freely when a melee comes at me so I can get back my CDs to kill it. My view is this: if a melee manages to close distance to you, you "should" be dead unless you have an escape and hasted and frostbound are there to make that easier.

    with the new relics coming out.
    The logic is so flawed. You know Frenzy? 20% extra dmg. Yeah why not remove Rod of Magus then. Lets remove Obsidian as well we already have a relic that removes protections. Why should a God like Kali have to rely on a relic for optimal performance if mages don't?

    sacrifice a slot for a bit of extra attack speed and movement speed for an effect that is, now in a relic, and a myriad of other kits, you need to learn to play your god
    Why do you think that effect is given to those Gods? cause its useless? forum needs a facepalm emoji.

    Why do people build Gem of Iso if slows are in "all" kits? Cause slows are good, stacking slows work so it keeps people in place longer and makes escape harder.

    Its already so damn easy to escape in this game. To come around the problem of Ra etc not having escapes just reintroduce combat blink.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 07-05-2016 at 05:26 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Member Follower Beviah's Avatar
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    I won't go into details about every reason on how Fatalis isn't overpowered or does not need a nerf other than with the simple statement: it isn't overpowered. You realize that the gods who do regularly pick up Fatalis have nearly zero team fight presence unless they are fed beyond belief, right? And the second they jump in, you turn on them and kill them. I don't understand, quite frankly, why people feel the need to make these kinds of threads. Just like the complaint about Sanctuary the other day, by a user who I won't specify, but I think we all know very well by now, had submitted a thread, similar to this one, with the exception that it was regarding Sanctuary. There was no factual evidence to support the claims other than "well this happened to me, so make it go away". I realize I'm being extremely blunt, and I'm going on a tad of a tangent, but the point remains the same. I don't see any feasible evidence to support the idea of Hastened Fatalis in need of a nerf or removal.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Yvolcarn's Avatar
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    Yea,,,, there are, I think, three gods who use Fatalis as a core item. And they don't even use it all the time. In fact, they are probably much more dangerous with something like SCS instead of Fatalis. Getting rid of it won't help you 1v1 against a Kali or Bakasura that possess some skill. Team fight? Just focus them or CC them and GG.

    In duel on the other hand, I hear Fatalis is stupid good. But duel isn't balanced anyway, so I'm not sure what you expect there.

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    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    The only problem i have with Fatalis is that it can be build by hunters.

    Those already have the advantage of distance so they should not be able to keep that safe distance and even hunt you down with it. Hunters pay the distance with the movement penality.......and Fatalis destroys that. Just like golden bow destroyed the balance of single to multi target.

    Make Fatalis assasin only and it would be balanced.
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