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Thread: Nu wa minions

  1. #11
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    So you really dont know what youre talking about do you? Well lets compare then.

    Nu Was Minions:
    -Have healt...less health.
    -Have a fair CD.
    -Deal less dmg.
    -Only dmg comes from combination with Shining Metal.
    -AoE stun
    -Magic pen after first hit (dash)
    -Walk like turtles
    -only usefull close combat (whats not good for a mage)

    Skadis Kalder:
    -Has life tokens he looses on ability or AA hit (tick based skills only deal 1 token dmg)
    -110% of Skadis movement....110% !
    -Deals up to 100% of Skadis DMG !
    -Has a dash that deals alot of dmg.
    -Roots you in Skadis Ult.
    -Invincible in Skadis Ult.
    -Can kill you in the fountain without loosing any tokens.
    -Skadi can control him.
    -Skadi does not need to even be in range to kill you.
    -Kalder gains full healt after a kill later on.


    Dont even bother to make any excuses in your next post. The last ones you made were proof of your knowledge:
    -Kalder has less burs you said.......laughted hard.
    -Skadi can shoot trought all minions just like Nu Wa does......where is the point? Skadi even slows and deals about the same dmg.
    -Kalder doesnt come with stun or shred ? And ? He comes with a root,invinsibility, alot more of dmg and movement,


    Get your information right please.
    Kaldr does more damage, but he doesn't come with more burst. I was referring to the exploding there, as well was when I said "shoot the minions." That's the burst I was talking about. So, no, I did not get my information wrong. The minions exists solely to reduce protections and blow up. They make for stronger lane pressure because of that. If they were more reliable, they would be too strong.

    Also, Kaldr does not deal 100% of Skadi's basic attack damage because his attack speed is half of Skadi's, so he effectively deals 50% of her basic attack damage.

    So, no, I did not get my information wrong.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    So, no, I did not get my information wrong.
    Yeah but were talking about the minions and not about Nu Wa or Skadi helping them. If you want to put it that way Skadi+Kalder still win in all terms compared to Nu Wa+Minions. So again your information is wrong because Skadi+Kalder have more dmg than Nu Was exploding minions.

    And what math did you do ? When Skadi deals 100 dmg Kalder also deals 100 dmg. With Skadi you may have more attack speed.....but Kalder is like some auto aiming rocket wich does not need to aim like Skadi does. So more attack speed=/= more dps. So Kalder effectively deals more dmg than Skadi does. Kalder is also ways faster at the target than Skadi.


    So yes nice try. You kill your minions with Nu Wa to deal AoE dmg thats nice but then they are gone for a while. Kalder ? Hit him 5 times first and pray Skadi has no ult ready. You should also pray that Skadi and Kalder aint both in your range to show you what burst is.


    You can turn it around as many times as you like but the result is the same:" Nu Was minions need better KI."

    Or how about some other examples:
    Bakasura: Minions target the god and follow him.
    Bastet: Can control the cats by debuffing the enemy with her bleed passive.
    Skadi: Full control of Kalder.
    Artemis: boar targets Gods.
    Arachne: Spiders will follow you no matter what.

    And Nu Wa ? Needs to use them in close range to effectively hit her combo. All other minions gods have god targeting minions or at least a ways to make them too.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Infamous Azilo's Avatar
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    I'm forever sticking by Nu Wa's minions being smart will not ruin her in that it makes her Op when they're spawned /right in front of her/ and /they're slow as hell/.

    You know who else shreds protections? Isis, Guan, Serqet, Bakasura, Hou Yi and Nemesis. All of them have reliable skills; some of them have skills they literally can't miss and you can't dodge. Nu Wa needs smart AI for her minions. And then, after 2 weeks, if she actually ends up being OP, revert it. You can't just look at what's on paper and go 'Oh, this is so OP.' When there's so many different people, teams and combos to be had.

    Her minions need to get close before they shred anything. And the chances of them getting close is slim. If they're sent in during a team fight, they'll crumble like a dry leaf.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Infamous Trubblegum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azilo View Post
    I'm forever sticking by Nu Wa's minions being smart will not ruin her in that it makes her Op when they're spawned /right in front of her/ and /they're slow as hell/.

    You know who else shreds protections? Isis, Guan, Serqet, Bakasura, Hou Yi and Nemesis. All of them have reliable skills; some of them have skills they literally can't miss and you can't dodge. Nu Wa needs smart AI for her minions. And then, after 2 weeks, if she actually ends up being OP, revert it. You can't just look at what's on paper and go 'Oh, this is so OP.' When there's so many different people, teams and combos to be had.

    Her minions need to get close before they shred anything. And the chances of them getting close is slim. If they're sent in during a team fight, they'll crumble like a dry leaf.
    Actually, their speed isn't that much of a hindrance, because they have a dash.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Chosen zitagirl's Avatar
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    Anyone who's saying that Nu Wa would be OP if her minions had better AI are those who think of her as a walking ult and never use the combo properly.The minions are idiots. You always have to make sure no minions, camp, gf and fg is around if you want them to attack the enemy god. The dash is also more RNG based: sometimes they dash, sometimes even a turtle is faster than them.

    Let's not forget that the combo is her only real burst damage and the minions have a whooping 18 sec cd. Mysterious fog and Shining metal do decent damage, but they are easy to dodge. Fire Shards has 110 cd and does pitiful damage till late game (though I'm glad it's not nore. This is what keeps her ult balanced).

    Don't make them Kaldr level of AI, but at least give them a proper AI like Batet's cats.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Infamous Azilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubblegum View Post
    Actually, their speed isn't that much of a hindrance, because they have a dash.
    A dash, like Zita says, randomly happens. And don't forget, if they do dash, it's when they're right next to a god. They don't dash to a god from 10 feet away, it's more like from 2ft away.

    Quote Originally Posted by zitagirl View Post
    Anyone who's saying that Nu Wa would be OP if her minions had better AI are those who think of her as a walking ult and never use the combo properly.The minions are idiots. You always have to make sure no minions, camp, gf and fg is around if you want them to attack the enemy god. The dash is also more RNG based: sometimes they dash, sometimes even a turtle is faster than them.

    Let's not forget that the combo is her only real burst damage and the minions have a whooping 18 sec cd. Mysterious fog and Shining metal do decent damage, but they are easy to dodge. Fire Shards has 110 cd and does pitiful damage till late game (though I'm glad it's not nore. This is what keeps her ult balanced).

    Don't make them Kaldr level of AI, but at least give them a proper AI like Batet's cats.
    Thank you, Zita =v
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  7. #17
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    Yeah but were talking about the minions and not about Nu Wa or Skadi helping them. If you want to put it that way Skadi+Kalder still win in all terms compared to Nu Wa+Minions. So again your information is wrong because Skadi+Kalder have more dmg than Nu Was exploding minions.

    And what math did you do ? When Skadi deals 100 dmg Kalder also deals 100 dmg. With Skadi you may have more attack speed.....but Kalder is like some auto aiming rocket wich does not need to aim like Skadi does. So more attack speed=/= more dps. So Kalder effectively deals more dmg than Skadi does. Kalder is also ways faster at the target than Skadi.


    So yes nice try. You kill your minions with Nu Wa to deal AoE dmg thats nice but then they are gone for a while. Kalder ? Hit him 5 times first and pray Skadi has no ult ready. You should also pray that Skadi and Kalder aint both in your range to show you what burst is.


    You can turn it around as many times as you like but the result is the same:" Nu Was minions need better KI."

    Or how about some other examples:
    Bakasura: Minions target the god and follow him.
    Bastet: Can control the cats by debuffing the enemy with her bleed passive.
    Skadi: Full control of Kalder.
    Artemis: boar targets Gods.
    Arachne: Spiders will follow you no matter what.

    And Nu Wa ? Needs to use them in close range to effectively hit her combo. All other minions gods have god targeting minions or at least a ways to make them too.
    I didn't say more damage, I said more burst. Using several autos is less burst than shooting through 3 minions and detonating them as well as hitting the god you're attacking. All 3 minions together do 450 damage with 90% scaling instantaneously when detonated. They can also remove up to 75 penetration. And you don't at all understand the game if you don't think attack speed has any connection to DPS. Also, Nu Wa needs to get in close because her lane pressure would be too strong; you have failed to address that point. And you can control the minions by damaging a target; they attack the last thing that damaged or was damaged by Nu Wa.

    So yes, nice try.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Prestigious RippleApple's Avatar
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    Let's go with this build:

    Trans (fully stacked), Titan's bane, the crusher, power boots, jotunn's wrath, asi.

    This gives you 248 power, 15% lifesteal, 45 penetration, 33% protections shred and 20% cooldown reduction.

    Nu Wa's physical protections at level 20 are 63.

    Damage formula: 100(x)/(100 + y) with x being damage before protections and y being protections before penetration.

    Skadi 1: 290 + 80% (488)
    Skadi's 2: 200% of basic attack damage (85 + 100%) (666 per attack)

    Altogether, 460 + 280%.

    Pen formula: Actual Defense = (Protection × (1-%Reduction) - Flat Reduction) × (1-%Pen) - Flat Pen63 x (1-.33) - 45 = 0 (can't go below 0) So yeah true damage.

    100 (1154)/(100) = 1154. Using her 1 and then one tick of her 2 does 1154 damage.

    Nu Wa:

    180 (supposing all three hit once) + 75 Penetration (let's just assume true damage lol)
    450 + 90% Minion Explode
    250 + 50% Shard

    Altogether, 880 + 140%.

    Nu Wa WOULD consistently outdamage Skadi with these kind of numbers, mainly because mage scaling works differently than physical scaling but also because of the huge protections shred Nu Wa gets from her clay soldiers. But that's assuming Kaldr only attacks a single time. In terms of instantaneous burst Nu Wa definitely wins out, but if Kaldr attacks let's say five times, that's suddenly 1000% scaling. Broken as shit. At least I think that's how Skadi's 1/2 interaction works. If not, even 500% scaling would still be broken as shit.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubblegum View Post
    Actually, their speed isn't that much of a hindrance, because they have a dash.
    With the range of Ao Ult....yeah nice cap closer indeed.

    @SirKeksalot

    Youre making a fool out of yourself more and more.To actually do that high burst dmg youre talking about you have to Lv up both her minions and her shining Metal up to Lv 5. You also seem to dont know that kalder deals double dmg when Skadi hits her spear on the enemy. Means he deals 200% of Skadis dmg at max rank and he deals ALWAYs more dmg than Skadi does duo to that.

    So again :" Dont bother with your burst argument !" Kalder deals much more burst dmg much sooner than Nu Was minions.


    Now to Nu Was so called "lane pressure". You mean that pressure she gets when she skills up her Fog first ? Wich means ignoring the minions ? Or the "pressure" she gets by wasting her shining metal on minions and being wide open for any attack now because she cant stun again for a while ? The so called "pressure" makes her always waste one skill in her skill chain.

    Now "controling the minions" by taking dmg...you mean some stuns by the enemy or some silence ? Or maye some huge AoE attacks wich instandly kill the minions right on the spawn ? Or what about "hitting" an enemy ? With what exactly ? Her 1 ? Yeah sure. Her 3 ? Sure lets waste the stun and until shining metal is ready again the minions are dead. Or by doing AAs ? Sure not obvious at all.


    You missing informations once again. So nice try again. Not that i asume anything else from someone who played 4 games with her anyway.

    @RippleApple
    Does your Math include that Kalders dmg rises by another 100% when Skadi hits her spear first ? What also counts for Kalders dash.

    So you need to take the dmg of Skadis spear first and then 200% of Skadis dmg on Kalder dash and autos.
    Last edited by Ichimarou; 03-26-2016 at 10:59 PM.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Prestigious RippleApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post

    @RippleApple
    Does your Math include that Kalders dmg rises by another 100% when Skadi hits her spear first ? What also counts for Kalders dash.

    So you need to take the dmg of Skadis spear first and then 200% of Skadis dmg on Kalder dash and autos.
    Yep.

    Here's the issue with Nu Wa. It's difficult to explode all three minions AND hit someone with her line ability at the same time. They basically have to already be cc'd. It also costs mana, and she has to do it without minions around or they'll get distracted.

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