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Thread: Hunters balance: the W+M1 mentality

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Hunters balance: the W+M1 mentality

    When people discuss balance in any class, strengths and weakness are rightly taken in comparison. For example, we don't say that Osiris is a terrible warrior because he can't self-heal, or that Sun Wukong is rubbish because his basic attacks aren't as fast as Osiris.

    When it comes to hunters, almost everyone suddenly turns to a single criterion: who can basic attack faster and/or stronger. People are quick to say that Cupid, Neith, Chiron and company are terrible because they don't have basic attack steroids (Cupid has, BTW, it's just a bit impractical). But is W+M1 it all there is to hunters?

    Why Neith needs quick basics when she can cut half or more of your health if you get caught on her trap? Or Cupid, with one of the strongest ultimates in the game and a quirky ability to support his support?

    Those guys play a different game than a more classic hunter, as Rama or Xbalanque. For start, they aren't as item-dependent. They also get a big lethality spike at level 5. If you leave a classic, item-dependent hunter alone in the lane with them, he'll most likely lose. It takes a lot more effort, supporting and skill to have your Xblanque killing someone at level 5 than a Cupid or Neith. Which means it's also easier for them to snowball and get those precious late-game items.

    The price they pay is not being as mass-murdering as a fully built pure basic attacker. They can't compete directly, but they still never cease to be a threat.

    In sum, it's simplistic to judge hunters as if they were all made to play the same way, as W+M1 machines. A pure basic attack-oriented hunter is a late game promise, which we all know how often can fail to materialize.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 03-14-2016 at 03:33 PM.
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    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    - snip -
    Well said. I want to break my reputation button right now.

    *Edit* People forget about building around the team. Instead they utilize popular Gods and roll with it stating said God is better at everything.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


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    Senior Member Chosen KFire's Avatar
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    It is not exactly as you say. Arty has the best basics in the game with the best steroid on hunters, yet she is considered bad. No pro has played recently with her?

    Cupid has the highest attack speed of any hunter making the sais build really good on him. Sais just got buffed and it is more on flavor now on s3. However people dont like cupid. No pro has recently played with him?

    No one has ever said that neith is bad. Did she miss a game in the world championship?

    I remember the times where xba was bad then nothing changed and now he is op. Probably someone played with him ....

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    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFire View Post
    It is not exactly as you say. Arty has the best basics in the game with the best steroid on hunters, yet she is considered bad. No pro has played recently with her?

    Cupid has the highest attack speed of any hunter making the sais build really good on him. Sais just got buffed and it is more on flavor now on s3. However people dont like cupid. No pro has recently played with him?

    No one has ever said that neith is bad. Did she miss a game in the world championship?

    I remember the times where xba was bad then nothing changed and now he is op. Probably someone played with him ....
    The problem with pro-players is that they prefer simplicity over mechanics.

    Nothing too hard or it won't help them win. If it requires more work then it's not viable.

    Neith is considered an easy to play God that most professionals see as a merit since she has waveclear in the early stages of the game. No player likes being pushed and Neith makes that possible while other hunters have different mechanics and scalings which make it harder to lane.

    Artemis can work, but she's massively risky due to her kit. Lacks an escape and slow to boot.

    I had one Artemis grab Speed buff back in S1. We were working with our jungler so he took attack instead.

    Speed buff on Artemis was the best combination I've seen since she was hard to catch in early stages of the game.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


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    Senior Member Chosen KFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    The problem with pro-players is that they prefer simplicity over mechanics.

    Nothing too hard or it won't help them win. If it requires more work then it's not viable.

    Neith is considered an easy to play God that most professionals see as a merit since she has waveclear in the early stages of the game. No player likes being pushed and Neith makes that possible while other hunters have different mechanics and scalings which make it harder to lane.

    Artemis can work, but she's massively risky due to her kit. Lacks an escape and slow to boot.

    I had one Artemis grab Speed buff back in S1. We were working with our jungler so he took attack instead.

    Speed buff on Artemis was the best combination I've seen since she was hard to catch in early stages of the game.
    Arty is so good man i really dont know why people dont like her. I am still 6-0 with her in cq league (that i obviously dont play much), and every time it went to wtf are you gonna pick artemis to awe and be my senpai arty.

    I was just gold 1 tho.

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFire View Post
    It is not exactly as you say. Arty has the best basics in the game with the best steroid on hunters, yet she is considered bad. No pro has played recently with her?

    Cupid has the highest attack speed of any hunter making the sais build really good on him. Sais just got buffed and it is more on flavor now on s3. However people dont like cupid. No pro has recently played with him?

    No one has ever said that neith is bad. Did she miss a game in the world championship?

    I remember the times where xba was bad then nothing changed and now he is op. Probably someone played with him ....
    You're right in that there is another factor that I've failed to mention, which is mobility, what dooms Artemis and AMC. But that doesn't apply only for hunters, so it's something for another thread.

    Neith was sneered at a lot before pros picked her.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 03-14-2016 at 12:12 PM.
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    Senior Member Prestigious zecleria's Avatar
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    xbal got op cus of starter items that helped his mana issues, so he has more easier time keeping up his 1 for dmg. thats why he happened to be the cool kid that returned to the block.
    You may think all gods have huge amounts of courage, but only xbalanque has the balls to use them as weapons.

    0.3 instead of 30% again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    Well said. I want to break my reputation button right now.

    *Edit* People forget about building around the team. Instead they utilize popular Gods and roll with it stating said God is better at everything.
    I already did give him, I am glad my troll thread led to this thread
    Vi, Goddess Of Wrecking

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    Senior Member Chosen KFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zecleria View Post
    xbal got op cus of starter items that helped his mana issues, so he has more easier time keeping up his 1 for dmg. thats why he happened to be the cool kid that returned to the block.
    There was a blue buff before and he was not a cool kid tho. Also, the starter that gave mana sustain does no longer exists.

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