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Thread: The reason why developers frustrate players

  1. #61
    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    It's fine, I did take her passive and scalings to an account, but seeing as she's more built around supporting in the end is something to take note of. Not a lot of people aim for damage with Athena unless you build enough in the comp to compensate it.
    Try this: Any physical defense item, Void Stone, Urchin, Pen Boots, Tahuti, another power item. You get from 300 to 400 power depending on that item.

    Then let's check the raw numbers: (280 + 200) + (560 + 400) = 1440. Your spear basic attack should be doing its base + 180. Then you can add Polynomicon (you can still get to 400 with a potion, more with buffs) for more 300.

    In total, we have an non-ultimate combo doing 1920 base damage (actually about 2000), from a 3 defense items guardian, with enough penetration to make that almost true damage to squishies. Tell me now how Athena is low damage...
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  2. #62
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    Try this: Any physical defense item, Void Stone, Urchin, Pen Boots, Tahuti, another power item. You get from 300 to 400 power depending on that item.

    Then let's check the raw numbers: (280 + 200) + (560 + 400) = 1440. Your spear basic attack should be doing its base + 180. Then you can add Polynomicon (you can still get to 400 with a potion, more with buffs) for more 300.

    In total, we have an non-ultimate combo doing 1920 base damage (actually about 2000), from a 3 defense items guardian, with enough penetration to make that almost true damage to squishies. Tell me now how Athena is low damage...
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


  3. #63
    Senior Member Prestigious AcidTheWarlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
    Why does he or any character in any moba need to be the best at what they do? Another thing I don't understand, why cant the character design/kit be good and its the player's skill that alleviates that character to great? Why do kits need to be handed to us on a silver platter?
    This is how I make my god concepts. Difficult, fun, complex, and only good at their specified area. Yeah, my newest idea is good at killing people, but he relies on slow basics and CC to kill enemies, not huge burst, and you have to chain his abilities to do anything.

    Hi-Rez really needs to start reviewing their ideas more.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    Well, we can make comparisons between Bellona and Tyr. Bellona like Xing is bloated with everything that Tyr lacks, yet in terms of equal skill, Tyr countered Bellona early game despite his personal weakness. Of course I took into account the fact that Thor was able to secure that FB. Afterwards despite the blunder, she still managed to perform under average performance.

    Enemy may been seen to you as a weaker team, but that final/third game would've been theirs if they continued to press hard.

    Frankly despite the early lead that the European team had, Enemy was able to push back mid game showing that they were not easily crippled by the early domination.

    Xing can be countered by of course Beads and he has a 1 second windup time before the ultimate catches you so you had to either blow up your escape or utilize an active to counter it. The problem with Xing was that Hi Rez decided to let him keep his mobility which is bad balancing. If a God has a powerful kit based around power and utility then you compensate that with his mobility.
    Tyr doesn’t beat Bellona unless she allows him to consistently cancel her hammer and hit the wave with his fearless. Mostly, Tyr just doesn’t lose too badly to Bellona, which appears to have been the philosophy that most teams have taken with Xing Tien – just find a god he doesn’t beat too badly.

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    Banned Infamous ImAeternalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkboyJr View Post
    Tyr doesn’t beat Bellona unless she allows him to consistently cancel her hammer and hit the wave with his fearless. Mostly, Tyr just doesn’t lose too badly to Bellona, which appears to have been the philosophy that most teams have taken with Xing Tien – just find a god he doesn’t beat too badly.
    Tyr loses lane to bellona and he loses the late game. Tyr is completely worthless compared to bellona.

  6. #66
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAeternalis View Post
    Tyr loses lane to bellona and he loses the late game. Tyr is completely worthless compared to bellona.
    Tyr is overall good, I don't see how you see him as bad when he does large damage with fearless. I think the highest I went with Fearless was 800 damage. Sure his counter is Beads, but Fearless is up every 10-15 seconds.

    He has utility, a self-sustain, and can switch between a hard hitting offense to defense.

    Compared to Bologna, he requires literal skill to play.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


  7. #67
    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Tyr is a great god. He competes well with Hercules, Chaac, Sun Wukong, Vamana, pre-rework Ravana and Osiris. But again, he isn't Bellona. He isn't Xing Tien. He isn't Amaterasu. If played well, he won't lose to them too badly and, if you out play them hard, you might even win lane against them, but at the end of the day outside of maybe a few very narrow niches, you'd be better off just picking them because their kits are clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

  8. #68
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkboyJr View Post
    Tyr is a great god. He competes well with Hercules, Chaac, Sun Wukong, Vamana, pre-rework Ravana and Osiris. But again, he isn't Bellona. He isn't Xing Tien. He isn't Amaterasu. If played well, he won't lose to them too badly and, if you out play them hard, you might even win lane against them, but at the end of the day outside of maybe a few very narrow niches, you'd be better off just picking them because their kits are clearly head and shoulders above the rest.
    Of course he isn't Bellona, again comparing two Gods to fill the same roles and positions regarding balance isn't a viable comparison. Bellona can work in many team comps, but suffers in regards to teamplay. Sure she has a slow/dash, a bludgeon that increases per God hit on swing, a disarm, and an ult that can stun and increase ally stats. Except her job is to shut down adc's and correlate teamfights.

    Tyr is displacement and be a secondary tank if the need arises.

    Tyr works depending on the team comp, yes Bellona can be better than Tyr. In a competitive setting on paper, Bellona would be ideal, BUT even on an equal skill plain in a match, Bellona can be countered early game and the enemy is very cautious around her.

    But Miyobi-kun, Bellona is better than all the warriors.

    Yes, that's true, but at the same time she is easily one of the most overrated and countered Gods in the game. Why? If we were to go by pro matches, her ban rate is high, but those that didn't ban her knew exactly how to counter her perfectly which swung majority of the matches in their favor.

    Except Miyobi-kun, why should I pick non-mainstream Gods when we have Xing and Bellona?

    Both are overly strong for their own good yes, but non-meta Gods like Awilix who has built up her strength because she is non-meta have proven to work amazingly against mainstream comp Gods. The theory and plays have worked tremendously in favor of non-meta picks.

    You can keep stating the factor of competitive plays and on-paper statements regarding balance and how things should be, but on equal ground of skill, it depends on the line-up itself.

    Pros that built up on theory like Krett, made Gods like pre-rework Ravana, yes pre-rework Ravana viable in competitive play.
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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Awilix hasn’t been picked-up by the pros yet, but she will be. Everything she does, from her invades, to her clear, to her mid harpy control, ganks, jungle match-ups and team fight presence are indicative of a top tier god.

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