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Thread: The reason why developers frustrate players

  1. #51
    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
    Why does he or any character in any moba need to be the best at what they do? Another thing I don't understand, why cant the character design/kit be good and its the player's skill that alleviates that character to great? Why do kits need to be on a silver platter?
    He doesn't. If there is a god that's better though, then there's a god that's better and, if we assume people like winning, they will play that god instead. Gods that are "fine" rarely see nearly as much play as gods that are great.

  2. #52
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Shaman, tying Gods to other Gods in justifying why they are bad because one is stronger on an independent level is bad balancing. Khumba is strong in displacement which makes him very strong in all stages of the game.

    He has a root, mez, and an ult that hits massively hard, but the argumentative focus is his wave clear and how slow his CC is?

    Each God specializes an objective or role regarding their place on the team. They have strengths and weaknesses, but most counter argumentative process only focuses either the strength or weakness and not both.

    Sobek has virtually no wave clear and his CC is subpar yet played based on his early game utility. Sylvanus the boring of Gods has a root, laughable regen heal, a grab, and an ult that's pretty much a knock up of Geb. Geb has one knock up, a shield, and a rollout with a percent based ultimate.

    All of them lack viable wave clear, I can even add Ares, and Khepri to the mix, and those two don't have as much CC as Khumba. Except each Guardian attritbutes to a specific style of play.

    That's what irks me about some in the community that it must be a specific setup regardless.

    This is why the SWC had the smallest pool of playable Gods was because of this horseshoe mentality.

    Team comps work for a reason, if you have a team comp built for all around teamfights then you counter that with individual Gods that can single out key players of the other team.

    If Thor was a threat in the SWC then you counter him with Khumba.

    Running a double Guardian play? Khumba would've made it work since he's a warrior bruiser with CC.
    Last edited by MiyobiKumagawa; 02-01-2016 at 10:18 AM.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


  3. #53
    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Xing Tien can both single out enemies and wreck team fights though. Plus he has a stronger laning phase, poses more of a threat to bulky gods and trades better. I'm not saying that this makes Kumba underpowered in any way, in fact I think I've made it quite clear that I think Xing is overpowered, but if there are better gods, there are better gods and, unless you're up against a full squishball line-up (which Kumba actually does excel against due to his solid burst), there really isn't a reason to pick him over Xing if there's money on the line.

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    Senior Member Chosen EconomicSuicide's Avatar
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    This whole mentality of picking the so called best god in roles is idiotic and probably why I find Mona pros to be scummy

  5. #55
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkboyJr View Post
    Xing Tien can both single out enemies and wreck team fights though. Plus he has a stronger laning phase, poses more of a threat to bulky gods and trades better. I'm not saying that this makes Kumba underpowered in any way, in fact I think I've made it quite clear that I think Xing is overpowered, but if there are better gods, there are better gods and, unless you're up against a full squishball line-up (which Kumba actually does excel against due to his solid burst), there really isn't a reason to pick him over Xing if there's money on the line.
    This mentality can only get you so far though. I respect this line of thought, but you are limiting yourself to a small God pool then if you think this way. Why do you think Enemy wasn't able to do well during the finals?

    They lacked proper build mentality and God playability. Enemy crippled themselves to mainstream builds and God picks.

    Barracuda made Vulcan and AMC viable again back in S1 because he took the weaknesses of the Gods and pitted them against Gods with massive mobility.

    Guess what?

    He destroyed basically every team that ran mobility comps.

    Xing may have everything, but lacks proper skill to utilize against those that knew how easy it was to counter him.
    Last edited by MiyobiKumagawa; 02-01-2016 at 03:51 PM.
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    Senior Member Chosen BlueFast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    Athena suffers in damage
    I apologize for completely ignoring the point of your post, but Athena has some crazy damage

    Passive: After using any ability, Athena's next Basic Attack is a ranged attack, hitting all enemies it passes through, and dealing an additional +25% of her Magical Power as damage.
    1: 80/130/180/230/280 (+50% of your magical power)
    3: 140/245/350/455/560 (+100% of your magical power)
    4: 350/450/550/650/750 (+90% of your magical power)
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  7. #57
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFast View Post
    I apologize for completely ignoring the point of your post, but Athena has some crazy damage

    Passive: After using any ability, Athena's next Basic Attack is a ranged attack, hitting all enemies it passes through, and dealing an additional +25% of her Magical Power as damage.
    1: 80/130/180/230/280 (+50% of your magical power)
    3: 140/245/350/455/560 (+100% of your magical power)
    4: 350/450/550/650/750 (+90% of your magical power)
    It's fine, I did take her passive and scalings to an account, but seeing as she's more built around supporting in the end is something to take note of. Not a lot of people aim for damage with Athena unless you build enough in the comp to compensate it.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    This mentality can only get you so far though. I respect this line of thought, but you are limiting yourself to a small God pool then if you think this way. Why do you think Enemy wasn't able to do well during the finals?

    They lacked proper build mentality and God playability. Enemy crippled themselves to mainstream builds and God picks.

    Barracuda made Vulcan and AMC viable again back in S1 because he took the weaknesses of the Gods and pitted them against Gods with massive mobility.

    Guess what?

    He destroyed basically every team that ran mobility comps.

    Xing may have everything, but lacks proper skill to utilize against those that knew how easy it was to counter him.
    I’m sorry to Enemy, but they were clearly just the weaker team, in terms of farming, team fights and single player skill. Maybe they could have made it close with some weird picks, like Titan did last year, but they weren’t going to win it if Epsilon played anywhere near where we saw them throughout the rest of the year and in the previous several games of the tournament.

    You pick gods like Ah Muzen Cab because they can excel over other gods in ways you might not expect and an argument along those lines could be made for Kumba versus Sobek, since Sobek’s damage is low, but consistent, whereas Kumba tends to be quite bursty, but Xing doesn’t have Sobek’s damage deficit. I didn’t particularly see Xing being countered in the SWC, most teams just threw Bellona or Tyr across from him and fought him in a team fight like you would any other guardian, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about here.

  9. #59
    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkboyJr View Post
    I’m sorry to Enemy, but they were clearly just the weaker team, in terms of farming, team fights and single player skill. Maybe they could have made it close with some weird picks, like Titan did last year, but they weren’t going to win it if Epsilon played anywhere near where we saw them throughout the rest of the year and in the previous several games of the tournament.

    You pick gods like Ah Muzen Cab because they can excel over other gods in ways you might not expect and an argument along those lines could be made for Kumba versus Sobek, since Sobek’s damage is low, but consistent, whereas Kumba tends to be quite bursty, but Xing doesn’t have Sobek’s damage deficit. I didn’t particularly see Xing being countered in the SWC, most teams just threw Bellona or Tyr across from him and fought him in a team fight like you would any other guardian, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about here.
    Well, we can make comparisons between Bellona and Tyr. Bellona like Xing is bloated with everything that Tyr lacks, yet in terms of equal skill, Tyr countered Bellona early game despite his personal weakness. Of course I took into account the fact that Thor was able to secure that FB. Afterwards despite the blunder, she still managed to perform under average performance.

    Enemy may been seen to you as a weaker team, but that final/third game would've been theirs if they continued to press hard.

    Frankly despite the early lead that the European team had, Enemy was able to push back mid game showing that they were not easily crippled by the early domination.

    Xing can be countered by of course Beads and he has a 1 second windup time before the ultimate catches you so you had to either blow up your escape or utilize an active to counter it. The problem with Xing was that Hi Rez decided to let him keep his mobility which is bad balancing. If a God has a powerful kit based around power and utility then you compensate that with his mobility.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


  10. #60
    Member Follower Gloomweaver's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think the devs just want to "shake things up" and keep the game from getting stale. People are naturally opposed to change (even when they think it might be good for them), so they complain. If the dev's keep changing things, obviously some of those changes will be good and other changes will be bad.. most changes won't innately be good or bad, but people will still hate them for the simple fact that they exist. Ultimately though, whether the changes are good or bad, keeping the game "new" and "exciting" is in everyone's best interest. We have to accept that means we will often be disappointed with changes.

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