Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Let's fix this God: Bakasura!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Infamous PapaRodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    8,352
    27
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 543
    Achievements:
    Repped! Third Class Repped! First Class Party Person Tagger Third Class Full Profile!
    Rep Power
    22

    Let's fix this God: Bakasura!

    Hello, boys and girls? Who of you has been naughty, who has been nice? Hehe, doesn't matter, it's all the same to me anyway.

    My last thread about Anubis was somewhat well received, so I figured that it is time to take a look at another god that is in need of some fixing. Today, let us take a look at Bakasura, the great Devourer.

    Bakasura is an interesting god and has a lot of semi-unique aspects to his kit. He was regarded as a very capable and strong solo laner, but he has fallen from grace since then pretty fast for quite a lot of reasons since season 2 started. Most of said reasons, frankly enough, haven't had hitting him in mind, he is pretty much just collateral damage.

    The Abilities:

    Passive: Insatiable Hunger
    Bakasura's attack and movement speed temporarily increases for each enemy that he kills.
    Bakasura is special in that a lot of his kit is dependend/reliant on minions, which can be both blessing and curse at the same time. Bakasuras passive is very powerful since 30% ATK and Movement Speed is a lot to gain for just getting 3 kills on minions (or gods for that matter). A lot of Bakasuras Season 1 strategy revolved around utilizing this passive quickly by using Hog 2 to immediatly kill back archers and go for the enemies throats. This leads to one of the first indirect hits to Bakasura, the nerf to Hand of the Gods.

    The Problem with this:
    The problem here is mostly that Bakasura has no efficient way to actually quickly deal with 3 enemy targets at once outside of his 1, which you do not want to use for clearing minions for understandable reasons, taking a lot of the momentum out of the passive that people used to know and like in Season 1.

    My suggestion here would be that the ability should remain as it is, but killing a minion with Eat Minion should grant 2 stacks instead of one. This allows Bakasura to receive most of the stat boost granted by the passive to go wild, which also helps him with his lane and camp clearing abilities.

    1. Ability: Take Down
    Bakasura leaps to his ground target location, doing damage to all enemies in the area and reducing their Physical Protection.
    A typical ground target jump, the only thing that is really special is that the base damage on this is actually pretty high. Starting with 100 is a lot, ending with 340 is...still a lot. And still, it is usually one of the last skills you rank up as Bakasura for different reasons.

    The Problem with this:
    Honestly, it may not be an actual problem, but there is something about this ability that I never liked. A lot of Bakasuras gameplay, especially during the early/mid game, is utilizing the true damage dealt by his 3. Ability. That being said, I heavily, heavily dislike that they decided to put an protection debuff on this ability. Of course, he still profits from it thanks to his basic attacks being his main source of damage, but I still feel like.....it feels inconsistent.

    The only change I would want to apply here would be to change the protection debuff so that it scales with rank, up to 30-50. Part of the reason for this will be talked about later.

    2. Ability: Eat Minion
    Bakasura grabs a minion and devours it, healing himself and gaining a Protections Buff. Buff wielding minions must be at 33% Health to be consumed. Up to 6 minions are stored for Regurgitate.
    One of Bakasuras more iconic abilities in my book. As I said, Bakasura being one of the if not the most minion related god in the game, most of what these mechanics encompass have to do with this ability. Eat Minion gives a nice amount of healing and can be considered a HOG when it comes to clearing buffs, whicch is pretty decent.

    The Problem with this:
    Several actually. For one, the ability is entirely useless against gods. One may correct me, if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that this is the only "offensive" ability that has absolutly no effect on enemy gods in the game, making this ability an empty spot for as long as there is no minion or jungle camp closeby. Second, the animation is pretty long, giving Bakasura quite the long downtime upon using it. There is also a point to be made for the protections this ability give being somewhat....weird placed here.

    The change I suggested to the passive is of course a direct buff to this ability, letting it grant you 20% ATK and Movement Speed instead of just 10% for 10 seconds upon using the ability, which is a notable difference in itself. I think that quickening up the cast time would also be very helpful for Bakasura. Instead of granting protections, the ability should grant physical power, a change that I will explain further when i talk about the next ability. Another thing should be some consistency when it comes to player created minions. Bakasura should be either able to eat them all or eat none of them, if only to not create confusion.

    3. Ability: Butcher Blades
    Bakasura passively gains Physical Power. When activated, he gains additional true damage on each strike for the duration.
    The ability where most of Bakasuras Damage will come from, actual basic attacks aside. True damage makes this ability quite noteworthy when it goes against tanks and of course, 30 free physical power is something no god would say no to.

    The Problem with this:
    Several problems again. The first would be the passive physical power. On one hand, a god like Bakasura who pretty much runs only on basic attacks needs a lot of benefits to make up for his lack of ability strength. On the other hand, looking at other gods, we see that HiRez apparently isn't too fond of having gods that have free stats in their gods kits just being their without any kind of action or interaction being necessary beforehand. Look at old Odin for example, who used to have quite a lot of passive stat gains in his kit but lost them all before he got reworked. Aside from him, i can't think of any other god that still has free stats in his kit that do not demand him to actually do something for them beforehand. That being said, I think that this passive power has to go, on the bright side, it can make place for something different. Second would be the true damage part. It is nice that he has it, but his main source of damage being able to only scale with ATK Speed feels weird and puts Bakasura in a very strange position when it comes to building him.

    I think it would be a much better solution if Butcher Blades would deal physical damage, but with some actual scaling and different numbers about them. That way, more of the physical power Bakasura builds will be translated into actual damage and penetration becomes a much more valuable stat for him, which in turn would also make me feel much more easier about the small bit about his first ability I talked about earlier. Numbers would need testing and some rebalancing of course, but overall, it should work out nicely. The passive physical power granted by this ability can be relocated to Eat Minions with adjusted numbers, making the 1 much more of an actual steroid with the added benefit of healing Bakasura.

    I also think that the casttime should get a small increase in here as well.


    Ultimate: Regurgitate
    Bakasura regurgitates all of the minions consumed by his Eat Minion ability at his ground target location that Slows and Cripples enemy players. Bakasura's Basic Attacks become cone attacks and he is immune to Crowd Control for a short duration.
    Bakasuras ultimate and probably the nightmare of all People who dared to put a mage into season 1s solo lane, also the creator of quite a lot multi/pentakills in Arena. I actually learned a little bit when I did some research for writing this post, namely that the damage of the regurgitated Minions isn't actually a flat 15 but 15 + 10% of Bakasuras Power. Overall a very interesting, powerful and unique ability.

    The Problem with this:
    It is one of these ultimates that do not feel worthy to rank them up. It only gives you a better slow, which honestly is pretty underwhelming for an ultimate. The travel time could also be faster, especially for long range applications of the ability.

    Reduce the travel time of the black goop so that it is much more reliable to use to cut off an escape of a god who has a jump or dash. In addition to increasing the strength of the slow, the damage of the minions should also increase per rank. Not by much, but just knowing that it is there would make the ability feel much less underwhelming to skill. Letting it max at something around 20 would probably already be enough. On top of that, the cooldown of the ultimate should be reduced as you rank it up, down to 70 like other ultimates like Ravanas or Arachnes already do. That should help to make up for the otherwise apparent lack of a teamfight presence that Bakasura suffers from.

    A last change, more aimed towards making the 2 more usable in PVP, would be giving Bakasura the ability to devour his own minions. It sounds disgusting but if we are being honest, everything about Bakasura is disgusting, less so since his artwork has been remade, but you know where I am coming from. Being able to eat regurgitated minions would give him the ability to get/keep the powerbufff and his healthbar up to keep him in the battle.


    The Stats
    Being an Assassin, Bakasuras Stats are pretty okay for the most part. If anything, a very small adjustment (a very small adjustment that is) may be advisable to his physical protection to make up for the loss of the protection gain from his 2. I am talking about a very small shift, like 0.1 or 0.2 more physical protections per level as well to his base ATK damage to make up for the loss of the physical power from his butcher blades.

    His Counters
    Bellona is probably the worst thing that has happened to him in this game and even with the lot of changes and buffs I gave to him, that much won't change. Block and Disarm will shut him down entirely unless he has beads and/or his ultimate. Having his ultimate up a little more often as the game progresses will be a slight help against that, but it is still crippling outside of that.

    Slows and ATK Speed Reductions will also heavily hurt Bakasuras performance as they do now, infact, Witchblade which was once known as one of the better counters against Bakasura will now be even better than before since it now affects him even harder. Ichivael and Frostbound Hammer against Bakasura will remain viable options, even more so than they were already.

    TL;DR Version:
    1. Passive mostly unchanged, but will now grant two stacks of ATK/Movement Speed upon eating a minion.
    2. Take Down now has a physical protections debuff that scales with rank.
    3. Eat Minion now grants two stacks of Unsatiable Hunger, grants physical power and has a shorter Casttime. Can also be used on regurgitated minions.
    4. Butcher Blade no longer gives passive physical strength and no longer deals physical damage but instead deals physical damage that also scales with physical power to help Bakasura better benefit from Itemization.
    5. Regurgitate travels faster and regurgitated Minion Damage as well as the cooldown now scale with rank. Regurgitated Minions can now be eaten.
    6. Very slight increase to his base physical protections and basic attack damage.

    All in all more changes than what I did with Anubis earlier and not all of these make sense when looking at it immediatly, especially the true damage part I can see will give some people strange thoughts.

    Basicly, the fact that Bakasura has True Damage in his kit makes building him strange immediatly. You have Executioner, which is and should be a staple for everyone who builds an BA based god, but then you have Bakasura, who has true damage as a pretty huge part of his basic attack damage and it feels awkward because you have spent 2200 gold on an Item that gives you 30 power, 20% ATK Speed and an insanly strong physical protection debuff, yet your only real damage ability can only utilize the 20% ATK Speed from that. Same goes for pretty much every other Item that has any kind of penetration or power on it. With the extra damage changed to physical damage that actually has some scaling going for it, all these stats now actually benefit Bakasura, making Items for him a much more intuitive and reasonable choices that only gave him part of the benefit before.


    As always, I will mini-moderate this thread and will be open for questions and discussions and, of course, suggestions. That aside, I hope you were enjoying the read, if you did, great, consider it your christmas present from me to you. If you did not, you were probably naughty this year and this threat is your lumb of coal.
    Papa Rodins Words of Wisdom
    An Index Page for threads created by me for you.

    Last Update: Let's fix this God: Nu Wa!

  2. #2
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead HipsterHao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    82
    3
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 242
    Achievements:
    Repped! Third Class 1 year registered 1000 Experience Points
    Rep Power
    5
    Good job as always Papa :3, I really enjoy reading your threads!

  3. #3
    Guide Chosen mrgreekzies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    A movie theater bathroom
    Posts
    1,476
    15
    Level completed: 2%, Points required for next Level: 1,372
    Achievements:
    Conversation Starter Repped! First Class Full Profile! 10000 Experience Points Veteran
    Rep Power
    11
    Post so long...attention span so short...but Papa makes great threads...enhgggg...

    I'll read it in intervals. But what I've so far is great! Keep it up, dude.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Prestigious BobKetchup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    In a Heinz Ketchup Bottle crying because I realized I misspelled ketchup in my location for 6 months
    Posts
    4,584
    17
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 998
    Achievements:
    Full Profile! Repped! Third Class Repped! First Class 10000 Experience Points Party Person
    Rep Power
    15
    I really like these changes. I was able to put myself through the whole wall rather than the TLDR version and I am a fan of these changes. I just wish someone from HiRez would make it known they're reading this because making a thorough and awesome thread deserves more attention,
    I think you should do Kukulkan next.
    Half of what I say is a joke.
    http://niceme.me/
    Survivor Ullr is Billy Mays
    My Top Warriors: Bellona Ravana Amaterasu
    My Top Assassins: Fenrir Thor Mercury
    My Top 3 Guardians: Ares Xing Tian Sobek
    My Top 3 Mages: Hades Sol Zeus
    My Top 3 Hunters: Ullr Hou Yi Medusa

  5. #5
    Senior Member Infamous TheLethalCorgi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    5,087
    18
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,262
    Achievements:
    10000 Experience Points Party Person Conversation Starter Repped! First Class Repped! Second Class
    Rep Power
    14
    The defense from eating a minion is because the minion gives him more fat I think, I'm not sure.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Infamous PapaRodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    8,352
    27
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 543
    Achievements:
    Repped! Third Class Repped! First Class Party Person Tagger Third Class Full Profile!
    Rep Power
    22
    I can't do Kukulkan because that would mean completly redesigning an ability, at least for what I would like to happen to him, something that I try to avoid in this series. I was feeling awkward for adding a new mechanic to Bakasuras 2 already since that is more than just shifting around numbers which was originally all that was supposed to happen in these threads.

    Vamana is a god I would like to do and will do soonish.
    Papa Rodins Words of Wisdom
    An Index Page for threads created by me for you.

    Last Update: Let's fix this God: Nu Wa!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chosen Graysmog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Pyro Land
    Posts
    2,380
    10
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 991
    Achievements:
    Full Profile! Repped! Second Class Repped! Third Class 5000 Experience Points Tagger Third Class
    Rep Power
    8
    While I do like where you're going with this, the only real problem I have with this is Baka and his ability to literally devour towers.

    If we apply the buff you gave to his Ult (which allows him to eat them), Baka would be capable of destroying Towers even easier thanks to the bonus damage the Minions happen to get and the far little repercussions Baka receives for using his Ult, since he can literally just eat all of his Minions and gain a large amount of Health back.

    Add that to the fact that eating his own Minions allows his Passive to nearly be up every second of the game, instead of every now and then, and he'll become a bit too powerful early.

    I see this as a pretty big problem, but hopefully I'm just looking into it too much.
    Art is merely an extension of our imagination. A true artist imagines more than they draw, write, or even play; art may cause a revolution, but imagination causes the uproar.

    ~Gray

    Sometimes I think God gave some people too many Lemons, as their just becoming way too pissy.

    Hundun, the Faceless Beast God Concept

  8. #8
    Senior Member Infamous PapaRodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    8,352
    27
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 543
    Achievements:
    Repped! Third Class Repped! First Class Party Person Tagger Third Class Full Profile!
    Rep Power
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Graysmog View Post
    While I do like where you're going with this, the only real problem I have with this is Baka and his ability to literally devour towers.

    Nothing wrong with that. A god being better at dealing with towers than others is a good thing. Baka has already been good at doing that, now he will be better, which is fair considering that he has to use an ultimate which also demands some actual maintenance in the form of having to devour minions for full effect.

    If we apply the buff you gave to his Ult (which allows him to eat them), Baka would be capable of destroying Towers even easier thanks to the bonus damage the Minions happen to get and the far little repercussions Baka receives for using his Ult, since he can literally just eat all of his Minions and gain a large amount of Health back.

    You forget that Eat Minions actually has a cooldown. Starts high at 18 seconds, goes down to I think 14 seconds.


    Add that to the fact that eating his own Minions allows his Passive to nearly be up every second of the game, instead of every now and then, and he'll become a bit too powerful early.

    Well you are still looking at a god who has to be right in your face for dealing damage, no ranged poke and he can't take out minions quickly and all at once like many other gods can, so you have to know when you can allow yourself to do what with him still.

    I see this as a pretty big problem, but hopefully I'm just looking into it too much.
    Everything would need testing of course and I did not gave a lot of number in here, especially to the new damage formula which will be needed for the new butcher blade, but overall, I think it should work out alright.
    Papa Rodins Words of Wisdom
    An Index Page for threads created by me for you.

    Last Update: Let's fix this God: Nu Wa!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Chosen Graysmog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Pyro Land
    Posts
    2,380
    10
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 991
    Achievements:
    Full Profile! Repped! Second Class Repped! Third Class 5000 Experience Points Tagger Third Class
    Rep Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    Everything would need testing of course and I did not gave a lot of number in here, especially to the new damage formula which will be needed for the new butcher blade, but overall, I think it should work out alright.
    I suppose I was thinking of it more in a 1v1 situation, as typically, the only way to stop a Baka who's ripping you to pieces is to keep him away from Minions and at range. With this buff, it seems like it would make it that much harder to do so, especially when you consider how CDR and Beads 3 come into effect.

    ..but yeah, I do see it as okay overall.
    Art is merely an extension of our imagination. A true artist imagines more than they draw, write, or even play; art may cause a revolution, but imagination causes the uproar.

    ~Gray

    Sometimes I think God gave some people too many Lemons, as their just becoming way too pissy.

    Hundun, the Faceless Beast God Concept

  10. #10
    Member Worshipper BreakingBads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    284
    4
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 594
    Achievements:
    Repped! Third Class 1000 Experience Points 1 year registered
    Rep Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    The ability where most of Bakasuras Damage will come from, actual basic attacks aside. True damage makes this ability quite noteworthy when it goes against tanks and of course, 30 free physical power is something no god would say no to.

    The Problem with this:
    Several problems again. The first would be the passive physical power. On one hand, a god like Bakasura who pretty much runs only on basic attacks needs a lot of benefits to make up for his lack of ability strength. On the other hand, looking at other gods, we see that HiRez apparently isn't too fond of having gods that have free stats in their gods kits just being their without any kind of action or interaction being necessary beforehand. Look at old Odin for example, who used to have quite a lot of passive stat gains in his kit but lost them all before he got reworked. Aside from him, i can't think of any other god that still has free stats in his kit that do not demand him to actually do something for them beforehand. That being said, I think that this passive power has to go, on the bright side, it can make place for something different. Second would be the true damage part. It is nice that he has it, but his main source of damage being able to only scale with ATK Speed feels weird and puts Bakasura in a very strange position when it comes to building him.

    I think it would be a much better solution if Butcher Blades would deal physical damage, but with some actual scaling and different numbers about them. That way, more of the physical power Bakasura builds will be translated into actual damage and penetration becomes a much more valuable stat for him, which in turn would also make me feel much more easier about the small bit about his first ability I talked about earlier. Numbers would need testing and some rebalancing of course, but overall, it should work out nicely. The passive physical power granted by this ability can be relocated to Eat Minions with adjusted numbers, making the 1 much more of an actual steroid with the added benefit of healing Bakasura.

    I also think that the casttime should get a small increase in here as well.
    Let him have his passiv power and give him even more power ( maybe with scaling) upon activation, but he looses his passiv power while the ability is on cd.
    Give it like 5 seconds uptime on 15sec cd.
    No true dmg.
    This way, i dont have to feel dirty about building exe on him and you can focus around bursting with your 4+3 in teamfights with bigger numbers.

    Or give him an entirely different ability on his butchers blades thats like gBow so he actually gets laneclear, which is his biggest problem since bluestone came into solo.
    Last edited by BreakingBads; 12-26-2015 at 07:26 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •