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Thread: Nemesis needs a nerf; Too much of a skilless god.

  1. #11
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Availa's Avatar
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    True, but allowing her dash to actually deal a decent chunk and not allowing her to completely slow down an enemy can completely change how she plays. I just feel like it would take more "skill" to play Nemesis this way instead of having it the other way around, unmissable damage, slow, and speed boost, with an AoE slow, and 2 damage on dash.

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    Member Follower OblivKnight's Avatar
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    I do agree on Dash being potentially more useful for aiding with clear.

    Honestly I'd :

    Make Ultimate able to be missed, Increasing the damage on the second hit of dash if the first hit connected with an enemy (jungle camps, enemy minions, GF, FG, gods), Slight buff to the cooldowns on her 2 and 3. The cooldown on her shield got nerfed to hell back when it was in that previously broken form, I don't really like that.
    This won't be removed until the Browns win the Super Bowl. - Started 3/20/14

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Availa's Avatar
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    I think that would make her fair. Unfortunately because of that "big" shield nerf, Hi-Rez probably won't be changing her very soon. In my opinion, she's not too powerful right now anyway, but I can see why some people are complaining about her.

  4. #14
    Member Worshipper Firellius's Avatar
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    I get the impression that Nemesis was handed down to Hi-Rez from Tencent, forced inclusion.

    Nemesis... I'd rather see her removed. Her visual design is cliché and over the top, and her gameplay design is very reminiscent of LoL's bruisers. Free everything and impossible to catch. Assassin damage, warrior survivability, assassin slipperiness, lots of slow, tank killer... And all of that without effort.

    This is not Hi-Rez design. They've made errors before but nothing like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firellius View Post
    I get the impression that Nemesis was handed down to Hi-Rez from Tencent, forced inclusion.

    Nemesis... I'd rather see her removed. Her visual design is cliché and over the top, and her gameplay design is very reminiscent of LoL's bruisers. Free everything and impossible to catch. Assassin damage, warrior survivability, assassin slipperiness, lots of slow, tank killer... And all of that without effort.

    This is not Hi-Rez design. They've made errors before but nothing like this.
    CONSPIRACY!

    But true, all in her is awful.
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  6. #16
    Member Worshipper Gigaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigrisCallidus View Post
    I think her ultimate should instant kill people who complain on forums about her as an additional effect

    Nemesis shield deals at most 250 damage and this only when it is maxed.
    Thats not realy a lot...

    It has a reasonable cooldown 18 seconds and when you can stop damage her she is quite vulnerable after the shield.

    The ultimate is something which is strong against tanks but not as strong against squishies (other ultimates deal a lot more damage to them).

    I like it for that fact, that it is not another 1 hit squishy killer. Of course it is quite strong and potent but as discussed in the other thread, she is not a top ban, so there isn't that much of a problem of her being too good.
    First, why the hell should we care if she's a top ban or not?....Or a top pic even? Bastet wasn't even touched for months despite no changes being made to her, but the minute she gets visual rework, everyone suddenly realized 'oh, she's a good god', and rebalancing commenced. Whoopty do if some nitwit in pro league doesn't ban her 100% of the time; That has nothing to do with her numbers and stats, it's just someone's personal preference and opinion.
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    After that, the issue isn't the damage, it's the mitigation AND heal. That's 500 damage blocked, and 250 damage dealt and healed....That means if I put down a DoT I can't take away- Ao, Pos, Anubis, Aphro, Ra, Arachne, Loki, Bastet to name a few- she can walk right into it, throw up her shield and leave a nice big gap; -250 from me, +250 to her on top of a 500 HP buffer....Since no one ever does basic math on this forum, I will; That means her shield creates a 500 HP difference from someone attacking her. And that's without factoring in items like Shell, or Hide, or Spirit robe, or for that matter any defense items. The damage dealt and healed by her shield last I checked was PRE-mitigation...PRE...That means it doesn't factor in her defense reductions when calculating the damage, but it does when reducing the shield HP and her HP. So even if she has 100 Defense in something-- which would reduce the attack by 50% pre-penetration-- and I do all 500 damage, her shield would take 250, and she would heal and deal 250 as well.... Maybe they changed that-- I hope to god they changed that, because that means her shield HP scaled with her defense as effective HP.
    -
    and you're right, it's not a 1 hit squishy killer. It's a 2-hit. It's a 2 hit on everyone at minimum, since it can't outright kill a person. It doesn't change the fact that once she pops that, you're 90% of the time going to be dead, and likely have nothing to counter it.

    Quote Originally Posted by OblivKnight View Post
    I'm pretty sure that with diminishing returns, someone isn't moving at -75% movement speed, but I'm not quite sure what the cut off point is. Also Frostbound hammer is a very terrible item, and you'd be better off using Sprint and/or Fatalis to stick to people. Also while the damage on her dash sucks, I feel it's best used as a gap closer anyway. *shrug*
    Negative; There's no diminishing returns on slows. If I hit someone with my Slow as Ao, and then Osiris comes in with his slow, we could reduce someone down to -100% speed. Slows stack, which is why Frostbound and Iso Gem are used a lot on gods with slows; They snowball together. Frostbound on Nem means you can nearly get someone to -100% loss of speed, which is why it gets picked for her over Fete a lot; It gives power, Health, and lets her stay with her target.
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    As to buffing her in general, sure, if it's side-grade and not the 'we're going to make you a god-mode character by buffing your damage up by hundreds' like we've seen in the past. Her ulti needs to be able to miss, and it wouldn't hurt if it had one less effect on it...I mean, It's akin to true damage given it completely ignores defense, it slows by 25%, AND takes their protections from them in a percent, and then gives it to her....It's an ulti that, unless you're diving into a whole team fight, or going 1v3+, there's no reason you should lose; it's the nearest thing we have in the game to a 'press button, I win' move....And hell, I remember back in the day when an ultimate just did DAMAGE and that was it. Now we have to attach every status effect and proc onto them?
    Last edited by Gigaus; 05-18-2014 at 02:18 PM.

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    Senior Member Chosen TigrisCallidus's Avatar
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    Bastet got with the visual updates also some small casting time changes etc.
    Also Nemesis was a top pick/ban before the nerf, so the nerf was helping to balance her, so in the moment no further balancing is necessary.

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    Member Worshipper Firellius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigrisCallidus View Post
    Bastet got with the visual updates also some small casting time changes etc.
    If you honestly believe that those small changes were enough to switch her from worst, never played godess to brutally OP monstrosity, you need to recheck your math, Tigris.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigaus View Post
    Negative; There's no diminishing returns on slows. If I hit someone with my Slow as Ao, and then Osiris comes in with his slow, we could reduce someone down to -100% speed. Slows stack, which is why Frostbound and Iso Gem are used a lot on gods with slows; They snowball together. Frostbound on Nem means you can nearly get someone to -100% loss of speed, which is why it gets picked for her over Fete a lot; It gives power, Health, and lets her stay with her target.

    Hmh, Nope! First of all, slows have a cap. You can't slow someone down to 100%. The minimum MS someone can have is 250, I believe. Can't go beyond that.
    Second of all, slows DO have diminishing returns. For slows above 40%, there's a formula (Not going to bother searching for it), therefore, you are never slowed by 75%. I do know, however, that 75% = 50% in reality. So, if Nemesis ults and Dices you, you are 50% slower, due to diminishing results.
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  10. #20
    Member Worshipper Gigaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwinged View Post
    Hmh, Nope! First of all, slows have a cap. You can't slow someone down to 100%. The minimum MS someone can have is 250, I believe. Can't go beyond that.
    Second of all, slows DO have diminishing returns. For slows above 40%, there's a formula (Not going to bother searching for it), therefore, you are never slowed by 75%. I do know, however, that 75% = 50% in reality. So, if Nemesis ults and Dices you, you are 50% slower, due to diminishing results.
    First, I never said that there wasn't a Cap; I said Slow combined together to get to a higher number, which basic math leads to 100%. does that mean that the get 0 movement speed? No, it means they hit the Ms floor and that's it.
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    Second, if you're not willing to back your shit up with facts and evidence, sit down. I could claim that there's a Cap on anything, or a formula for how lifesteal gets deminising returns the more you put onto it...It wouldn't be true, but I could claim it. And if we're talking about Dimishing returns in Smite, then we're not really talking about diminishing returns. You get diminishing returns with protection...Except that the more you get, the higher your effective HP is by orders of magnitude. You have diminishing returns on CC...Except that if you get hit by 3 or more Stuns/ect. it goes above the original cap....So claiming Slows has a diminishing return-- with no evidence on top of that-- is a moot point; It's Smite, there's no such thing as diminishing returns.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigrisCallidus View Post
    Bastet got with the visual updates also some small casting time changes etc.
    Also Nemesis was a top pick/ban before the nerf, so the nerf was helping to balance her, so in the moment no further balancing is necessary.
    Again, so what? You're talking about Picks and Bans like they matter. Please, stop using Pro league as evidence to balance the game; Pro League is for people who don't know how to play well, and come up with their own rules and meta...Or just use the flavor of the month and call it skill.
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    You're using someone's personal opinion as fact; First, please join us adults in reality and figure out that Opinions =/= Fact. Your argument has merit, but you're saying incredibly stupid things making it less so. Based on what you're saying is that because people are picking and banning her less, she's balanced? Right, because it doesn't come down to personal choice who picks what god; you absolutely have to 100% of the time pick the 'right' god to play, not who you're good with, or who you like...You're also assuming that her 'nerf' and her being picked less are linked; Hate you burst your bubble, but it doesn't. There's this amazing phenomenon called 'Flavor of the Month'. Every new god that comes out has this happen-- Every low skill player who has extra cash in their pocket spam this god until there's a meta to counter them, and claim their win's are based on skill, and not the fact 90% of the new gods that come out are imbalanced as fk. Nemsis is getting picked less because she's no longer the flavor of the month, and there's a new flavor every few updates. Hell, they could have BUFFED her and we'd still have seen a drop in picks for her.
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    You're also assuming that the bans switching from her to someone else has to do with her nerf....There's a reason the God Ban limit was increased, and that's simply because we're getting to the point where we have so many, 2 picks isn't gonna cut it. Seeing her banned less probably means one of two things; A, there's a meta going on that someone else counters [Like the Ares+Fen combo we saw back in beta, and how Hel got banned a lot in lower leagues.], and ergo they are considered a bigger threat, not because they're OP, or broken, but because they have something in their kit that lets them shut down a popular [and probably weak/broken] meta. Or B, there's a new god that hasn't been nerfed enough, or a god that's been buffed when they shouldn't have been, and they faceroll without trying.....And then there's the elephant in the room C, that everyone brushes aside and treats as if it's some myth ranking up there with Big Foot and Locke Ness, when it's simple fact and human factoring; Sometimes, people have a personal preference towords or against a certain character, whether there's a reason behind it or not...I know -gasp- shock horror, people are not robots that follow logic, and will ban Gods they just don't like for any number of reasons. Not because they're OP, or need balancing, but because they don't like having to deal with their kit, or listen to their taunts, or just because they once got beat by someone using that god and hold a insane grudge against the god and not the player due to their inflated Ego....This is life, and humanity in a nutshell...
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    So please, please stop using other's opinions and personal choices as fact to try and counter this argument. There's legitimate areguments to be made as to why she doesn't need a nerf; This isn't one of them, and you're doing your side a dis-service by repeatedly saying this...
    Last edited by Gigaus; 05-19-2014 at 01:56 PM.

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