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Thread: The Small Definitive Penetration Guide [Updated 3/28/17]

  1. #41
    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Math would appear to disagree...but I'm bored of arguing over taste in video game objects.

    Build whatever makes you do good .
    ~Scylla: 10,000~
    ~Status: DDLC destroyed my heart and soul~
    ~Level: 120/160~
    IGN: Sayorí
    "̴H̴a̵p̷p̷y̷ ̵t̴h̴o̵u̵g̴h̵t̸s̴,̷ ̸h̷a̵p̸p̶y̶ ̷t̶h̷o̴u̸g̶h̴t̴s̶,̷ ̴h̴a̸p̸p̶y̷ ̷t̴h̷o̶u̵g̸h̸t̴s̸ ̶i̵n̴ ̶s̷h̶a̸r̵d̴s̶,̸ ̴a̵l̶l̷ ̸o̸v̸e̵r̸ ̸t̵h̶e̴ ̴f̴l̸o̶o̶r̵"̷ ~ Sayori

  2. #42
    Forum Moderator Infamous SeventhArchon's Avatar
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    Is there a chance this can get a S4 update? Since Scuba left probably by someone else that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis View Post
    Math would appear to disagree...but I'm bored of arguing over taste in video game objects.

    Build whatever makes you do good .
    *rushes Fatalis on Geb*
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*
    wtb new signature

  3. #43
    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeventhArchon View Post
    Is there a chance this can get a S4 update? Since Scuba left probably by someone else that is.


    *rushes Fatalis on Geb*
    Attack speed Geb works, just look at Mythymoo.
    ~Scylla: 10,000~
    ~Status: DDLC destroyed my heart and soul~
    ~Level: 120/160~
    IGN: Sayorí
    "̴H̴a̵p̷p̷y̷ ̵t̴h̴o̵u̵g̴h̵t̸s̴,̷ ̸h̷a̵p̸p̶y̶ ̷t̶h̷o̴u̸g̶h̴t̴s̶,̷ ̴h̴a̸p̸p̶y̷ ̷t̴h̷o̶u̵g̸h̸t̴s̸ ̶i̵n̴ ̶s̷h̶a̸r̵d̴s̶,̸ ̴a̵l̶l̷ ̸o̸v̸e̵r̸ ̸t̵h̶e̴ ̴f̴l̸o̶o̶r̵"̷ ~ Sayori

  4. #44
    Senior Member Chosen ZetoPL's Avatar
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    Attack speed Geb works, just look at Mythymoo.
    In casual games everything works.


    Also about S4, I dont know how you guys but I build no more Pen Boots on most of mages,
    -CDR boots
    -Deso(20 flat pen)
    -Obsidian

    True damage against Mages (30 def) and 20% CDR, of course I can get Pen Boots against Hunters (48 def) but additional CDR sound better for me.
    This feeling when your team is far behind and you have no prospects for late game but for some reason players still doesnt want to surrender - MOBA Cancer.

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    Senior Member Chosen Spartan219's Avatar
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    i have a question if i build both the stackable pen and the perc pen that is titan's or obsidian and if i Go hit a tower will it ignore the stackable pen and instead apply perc pen normally because towers are not affected by stack pen
    for ex like say im nemesis and i build executioner and titan's bane both and the tower has 300 protections(just an example) so will it apply the titan's bane perc pen to 300 directly? then i can build both exec and titan's to focus on objectives and kills both

    another question is will stone cutting sword + executioner and demonic grip + spear of magus will work good together? you say spear can be applied on aa gods too it could work for ao or sol or chronos if they do actually

    uhh i hope you are getting what im saying my english is not really good

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    Senior Member Chosen Spartan219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZetoPL View Post
    No, please stop confuse ppl, you buy Magus on gods with multiple ticks abilities or Obsidian on gods with single damage abilities, there can be situations where you should buy Obsidian instead of Magus but never both. There is no room for two items with low power and 0 utility. In normal game you get destroyed before you even unload whole kit with this build.
    yes this magus and obsidian won work that good on kkk as he has only 1 ability to apply magus's passive which is his 3
    rest of the time because of spear you will be just reducing his dmg and pen for other abilities specially his ult which can do a lot of dmg but as he said in the post if you have already hit someone with your basics or whirlwind or your 1 you will apply a stack on the enemy meaning obisidian shard will Reduce protection from whatever protection enemy has left after spear's passive desolation works better 20 flat pen + 10% cdr woohoo

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    Senior Member Chosen ZetoPL's Avatar
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    i have a question if i build both the stackable pen and the perc pen that is titan's or obsidian and if i Go hit a tower will it ignore the stackable pen and instead apply perc pen normally because towers are not affected by stack pen
    for ex like say im nemesis and i build executioner and titan's bane both and the tower has 300 protections(just an example) so will it apply the titan's bane perc pen to 300 directly? then i can build both exec and titan's to focus on objectives and kills both
    Honestly I dont know that Exe apply debuff on towers or not, but anyway building these both items are bad.

    another question is will stone cutting sword + executioner and demonic grip + spear of magus will work good together? you say spear can be applied on aa gods too it could work for ao or sol or chronos if they do actually
    Thats fine, both items applies debuff while percentage have priority so you lose nothing from full potential of this combo.
    BTW. Spear apply debuff only with skills, Freya have burst, Ao have dragons, both are counted as spells while Chronos AA cant apply this debuff.
    This feeling when your team is far behind and you have no prospects for late game but for some reason players still doesnt want to surrender - MOBA Cancer.

  8. #48
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    Executioner doesn't work on structures as they can not receive debuffs/stacks so yes it would treat it as if you only had titan's bane for penetration. As stated using multiple stacking armor reduction does work so executioner + stone cutting sword is quite nice, however if you chose to go that route you won't want to have titan's bane as it's pen would be severely reduced(except on structures) so any further pen you'd want as flat pen like the crusher.

  9. #49
    Super Moderator Prestigious KingScuba's Avatar
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    need to slightly update this.

    To the questions above.

    1) No. Stacking effects do not work on towers.

    2) It's fine to build multiple penetration items in certain circumstances. However, NEVER build dual % items (For example, Obsidian shard and Demonic Grip. Shard is 33% PENETRATION, while grip is 36% REDUCTION. These fall under different orders, as seen below, so these items actually harm each other)

    - - - - So if you take Obsidian shard and grip against a 150 armored enemy, you'd have a formula like this

    (150 * 36%)33% = 64 Protections, It does not go 150 * 69% = 47 Protections

    By the same logic, it's actually a fairly bad idea to build an obsidian shard with ANYTHING other than flat penetration. All reductions are applied before you gem, which is wasted space.

    The order in which they are applied is:
    1. % Armour Reduction

    2. Flat Armour Reduction

    3. % Armour Penetration

    4. Flat Penetration
    So let's take a look at spear, obsidian, and demonic grip.

    Spear of the Magus : 15 magical penetration + up to 30 Magic protection Reduction

    Obsidian Shard : 33% Penetration

    Demonic Grip : Up to 36% Magic Protection Reduction

    So let's say you build Spear of the Magus and Demonic Grip. Then let's say you fight a god with 70 Magic Protections (A standard lvl 20 god with a spirit robe). Then let's do the math for only 1 item of each.

    So on the 4th hit, you'll have a formula that looks like this if you build both.

    70 protections * 36% (% reduction) - 30 (flat Reduction) - 15 (Flat Pen) = 0 protections. (-.2 if you want to be technical)

    If you build demonic + spear, you lower them to 0 protections.
    If you build only demonic, you'd lower them to 45 Protections.
    If you build only Spear of the magus, you lower them to 25 Protections


    Now let's do the 3 calculations on someone with 150 protections.

    150 Protections * 36% (% reduction) - 30 (flat Reduction) - 15 (Flat Pen) = 51 protections.

    If you build demonic + spear, you lower them to 51 protections.
    If you build only demonic, you'd lower them to 96 Protections.
    If you build only Spear of the magus, you lower them to 105 Protections


    3) I want you to remember that effects like Grip and Spear stick. So your entire team CAN make use of your items. However items like Obsidian and Titans bane, which only do Penetration, only apply to you. Keep this in mind.

    4) Remember key word in my item descriptions. Up To. You need to get 3 hits with your abilities before you're fully stacked. This means that grip and spear are only good on DOT gods or AA reliant gods (For example, Anubis, Poseidon, and Freya). Grip and spear are garbage on burst gods or non spam gods, like Hebo, Ra, Chang'e, and Scylla.
    Last edited by KingScuba; 03-28-2017 at 10:38 PM.
    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios. Also I will not be able to contest your in-game ban.

  10. #50
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead recherche3's Avatar
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    How about Kuku's Whirlwind? Does it apply the effects of Demonic on every tick? If it does, is the calculation viable if I hit an enemy with whirlwind and the enemy gets 4 ticks of dmg outside of it? Do I have to hit with AA and are AA's the same as a hit from his 1 (in terms of demonic stacks)?
    Sorry for the lame questions, just new to Smite.

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