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SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 08:04 AM
As usual I've removed the rant now that I'm capable of constructing a regular reply.
In short:
Online dating website "Ashley Madison" got hacked. The website was meant for married people cheating, and hackers threaten to expose data of cheaters if the site doesn't get shut down.
And I support it. In my opinion it would be best if the site was just shut down and never came back, however that might not be a permanent solution. I'm not against the cheaters being exposed either - however, no shame from the exposers should come with that.

Agent2090
07-24-2015, 08:38 AM
I've been cheated on, and even before that I've always had trust issues, especially when it regards the fairer sex. So trust me when I say that I understand your thoughts on the matter.

Being cheated on is perhaps one of the greatest feelings of betrayal I've ever felt, second only to one event in my life. But even through all of it, what I would never do is publicly shame the ones that cheated on me. That kind of thing should be reserved for pets behaving badly and politicians.

Relationship issues should be resolved behind closed doors, not cast into the public eye. No good comes of it.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 08:59 AM
I've been cheated on, and even before that I've always had trust issues, especially when it regards the fairer sex. So trust me when I say that I understand your thoughts on the matter.

Being cheated on is perhaps one of the greatest feelings of betrayal I've ever felt, second only to one event in my life. But even through all of it, what I would never do is publicly shame the ones that cheated on me. That kind of thing should be reserved for pets behaving badly and politicians.

Relationship issues should be resolved behind closed doors, not cast into the public eye. No good comes of it.

I see where you're coming from.
I beg to differ in two cases:
1.If someone cheated, it shouldn't be kept secret. People should be warned. Warned they may be screwed over if they get together and proceed at their own risk.
2.This particular case will bring so much more good than harm if exposed. It might just be the biggest possible deterrent to would-be cheaters, especially the online kind.

BhastetKurza
07-24-2015, 09:15 AM
I despite cheaters, if you are fortunate to have someone who is willing to love you and die for you, why the hell would you throw it away over some other person?

Why must you put that person through such pain?

I've been cheated/lied to/used you name it. It only gets more disappointing as time goes on.

I say the hackers should expose the cheaters, what is in the dark must come to the light.

They need expose the cheaters so the ones who have been wronged can move on.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 09:17 AM
I despite cheaters, if you are fortunate to have someone who is willing to love you and die for you, why the hell would you throw it away over some other person?

Why must you put that person through such pain?

I've been cheated/lied to/used you name it. It only gets more disappointing as time goes on.

I say the hackers should expose the cheaters, what is in the dark must come to the light.

They need expose the cheaters so the ones who have been wronged can move on.

Very nicely and calmly written. +1

MiyobiKumagawa
07-24-2015, 09:29 AM
I would say no since its against the laws of privacy, but I would like to keep my sanity in check against any that would do me wrong.

Why do people cheat? I don't understand this what they call "thrill" to cheat on your supposed significant other. Why would you pledge yourself to be with a person forever if you had no intent to do so?

A person's life isn't a game or a means to an end.

I find it disgusting that people have the galls to play around without taking the other person into effect.

This is why in the anime community in relationships that "Yandere's are the ideal significant other."

They dedicate themselves for you and only you even if they are a little crazy.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 09:34 AM
I would say no since its against the laws of privacy, but I would like to keep my sanity in check against any that would do me wrong.
Law is twisted. I wouldn't be against this at all. Then again, I have a strong irreverence against disloyal people.
Why do people cheat? I don't understand this what they call "thrill" to cheat on your supposed significant other. Why would you pledge yourself to be with a person forever if you had no intent to do so?
Thrill is one of the vilest intentions for cheating. Sadly, I think I understand this "thrill". I don't want to.
A person's life isn't a game or a means to an end.

I find it disgusting that people have the galls to play around without taking the other person into effect.

This is why in the anime community in relationships that "Yandere's are the ideal significant other."

They dedicate themselves for you and only you even if they are a little crazy.

I don't watch anime, join any anime communities or participate in any "yandere", so I don't understand the last 2 bits.

MiyobiKumagawa
07-24-2015, 09:36 AM
Yandere: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere

The definition may seem extreme, but in layman' terms stalker and borderline psychopath.

Agent2090
07-24-2015, 09:40 AM
I see where you're coming from.
I beg to differ in two cases:
1.If someone cheated, it shouldn't be kept secret. People should be warned. Warned they may be screwed over if they get together and proceed at their own risk.
2.This particular case will bring so much more good than harm if exposed. It might just be the biggest possible deterrent to would-be cheaters, especially the online kind.

1.) Sure, warn the next person the cheater goes out with. Don't plaster the cheater's face in a public place and say "ridicule this person, here's their shameful deeds". We've seen far too many examples in history of what mob mentality can do to people.
2.) The best way to handle it would be to reveal the cheater to their partner in a private way, that way they can handle it as they see fit, without outside influences telling them what they should do or how they should view their partner. (Of course, I'm aware that these hackers are after public attention more than anything, so that isn't gonna happen)

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 09:45 AM
1.) Sure, warn the next person the cheater goes out with. Don't plaster the cheater's face in a public place and say "ridicule this person, here's their shameful deeds". We've seen far too many examples in history of what mob mentality can do to people.

2.) The best way to handle it would be to reveal the cheater to their partner in a private way, that way they can handle it as they see fit, without outside influences telling them what they should do or how they should view their partner. (Of course, I'm aware that these hackers are after public attention more than anything, so that isn't gonna happen)

1. Warn the next person the cheater goes out with. This is appropriate for a cheater and doesn't do much unnecessary harm. Fine.
2. Do you think people will remember, mob and stalk every single name they find there? They'll just look up the name of their significant other (or if single, their interest) on the page. It's the equivalent of "telling the next person", instead the "next person" can just go check it on their own.
--
There's nothing really extreme. These people will just have their cheating exposed. And that's that. Their 37 million (that's 7 times my country's population) names won't suddenly be the 37 million most hated people ever.
--
I'm pretty sure we've seen much worse examples of mob mentality that's socially accepted and that people are used to. Heck, people are frequently mobbed and don't make a big deal unless it's something really severe or undeserved.
Undeserved. Remember who we're talking about.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 09:52 AM
Yandere: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere

The definition may seem extreme, but in layman' terms stalker and borderline psychopath.

Cheaters can make people go crazy.
I'm at the point where my trust issues are so bad I don't trust some people half a word (and those are not people that directly betrayed me or anything) and I trust only a trivial number (from the people I regularly meet that's a 1 digit number) of people anything that would make a difference. I don't want to bring up my psychological problems or stuff but it's relevant because it explains why I'm so angry.

Agent2090
07-24-2015, 10:16 AM
1. Warn the next person the cheater goes out with. This is appropriate for a cheater and doesn't do much unnecessary harm. Fine.
2. Do you think people will remember, mob and stalk every single name they find there? They'll just look up the name of their significant other (or if single, their interest) on the page. It's the equivalent of "telling the next person", instead the "next person" can just go check it on their own.
Except it isn't. It's the equivalent of going up to every single person you see, pointing at the person and saying, "hey, that person right there is a cheater. Here's a picture, just in case you forget, that THIS PERSON is a cheater." Whether it's listened to or not is irrelevant.
--
There's nothing really extreme. These people will just have their cheating exposed. And that's that. Their 37 million (that's 7 times my country's population) names won't suddenly be the 37 million most hated people ever.
--
I'm pretty sure we've seen much worse examples of mob mentality that's socially accepted and that people are used to. Heck, people are frequently mobbed and don't make a big deal unless it's something really severe or
undeserved.
Undeserved. Remember who we're talking about.

So what you're saying here, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that because there are worse cases of mob mentality going wrong, and because the information being given is nothing really extreme, it would be fine if any of the 37 million get mobbed?

I'm not saying all 37 million will get mobbed. Not even that most will get mobbed. But those that do wouldn't deserve the kind of hate and public ridicule (and even pain) that a mob can unleash. No one deserves something like that.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 10:25 AM
So what you're saying here, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that because there are worse cases of mob mentality going wrong, and because the information being given is nothing really extreme, it would be fine if any of the 37 million get mobbed?

I'm not saying all 37 million will get mobbed. Not even that most will get mobbed. But those that do wouldn't deserve the kind of hate and public ridicule (and even pain) that a mob can unleash. No one deserves something like that.

Yes, you're wrong. I'm not condoning mobbing.
2. Let's put it into a different sentence with the meaning.
"We'll put up a list of people who have cheated online." No one's forcing others to know the content of the list.The only person who might get possibly mobbed is a celebrity. I'm certain there's at least one of them, out of 37 million people there's bound to be a few. Being a celebrity, however, they're a part of public knowledge. And they should not be tolerated for being a bad example to thousands/millions (depends on individual) of people.
It's not fine if anyone gets mobbed. Neither is it if someone cheats.
If it's a normal person, they'll be treated just like every other cheater. Which is fine.
You're probably trying to say it might cause unwarranted amounts of hatred against certain people. It will also help a lot and will end many, many problems on its own.
I'm not saying mobbing is fine. I only believe that there will be more good than harm.

MiyobiKumagawa
07-24-2015, 10:29 AM
I would like to protect the sanity of what's left in this insane world. I'm hoping the girl I date in the future isn't some sociopath gold digger.

Tomboys are life, Tomboys are love. Girls that are boyish and don't care about clothes and jewelry are my ideal plus if they give me a tsundere attitude that is the perfect moe.

Mob mentality, huh? I wouldn't care about the bad majority as long as they don't spread the cancer.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 10:33 AM
I would like to protect the sanity of what's left in this insane world. I'm hoping the girl I date in the future isn't some sociopath gold digger.

Tomboys are life, Tomboys are love. Girls that are boyish and don't care about clothes and jewelry are my ideal plus if they give me a tsundere attitude that is the perfect moe.

Mob mentality, huh? I wouldn't care about the bad majority as long as they don't spread the cancer.
What kind? Cancer is a broad term these days. The cheating or the "let's all hate this one guy for being a slightly different kind of scum" kind?

Agent2090
07-24-2015, 10:57 AM
Yes, you're wrong. I'm not condoning mobbing.
2. Let's put it into a different sentence with the meaning.
"We'll put up a list of people who have cheated online." No one's forcing others to know the content of the list.The only person who might get possibly mobbed is a celebrity. I'm certain there's at least one of them, out of 37 million people there's bound to be a few. Being a celebrity, however, they're a part of public knowledge. And they should not be tolerated for being a bad example to thousands/millions (depends on individual) of people.
It's not fine if anyone gets mobbed. Neither is it if someone cheats.
If it's a normal person, they'll be treated just like every other cheater. Which is fine.
You're probably trying to say it might cause unwarranted amounts of hatred against certain people. It will also help a lot and will end many, many problems on its own.
I'm not saying mobbing is fine. I only believe that there will be more good than harm.

I believe we've pretty much exhausted the arguments that could be used on both sides of this particular issue. Saying more would simply start running us in circles. And I can definitely see where you're coming from, as I know the pain of being betrayed like that. I also believe that you can understand where I'm coming from.

I don't think public shaming should ever be considered as something good (I'm not saying that you are condoning it either, but it is a by-product of what you're suggesting, no matter the scale of it).

But at this point, it may be better just to agree to disagree.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 11:05 AM
I believe we've pretty much exhausted the arguments that could be used on both sides of this particular issue. Saying more would simply start running us in circles. And I can definitely see where you're coming from, as I know the pain of being betrayed like that. I also believe that you can understand where I'm coming from.

I don't think public shaming should ever be considered as something good (I'm not saying that you are condoning it either, but it is a by-product of what you're suggesting, no matter the scale of it).

But at this point, it may be better just to agree to disagree.

I think it's a nice way to settle this.
One last thing from me: The bare maximum of what I would not protest is exposing the cheaters in a neutral way. Exposing the cheaters so that everything that stems from it would take place in the viewer's mind. Only data and nothing more. No shame, no slander. Now that I've cleaned up the OP to make my thoughts less vague and more polite+straightforward, I think it's clearer what I'm trying to say.
No matter the scale, it's a bad thing for sure to get mobbed. The only question is whether this could really outweigh problems solved. I don't believe it could, but human stupidity should not be underestimated, so I'll leave it at that.
I'll give you a +1 for enduring my anger, constructing polite and clear replies and giving it a friendly finish.

MiyobiKumagawa
07-24-2015, 11:53 AM
What kind? Cancer is a broad term these days. The cheating or the "let's all hate this one guy for being a slightly different kind of scum" kind?

The cheating is a broad cancer that I despise. It's as bad when I hear about sugar daddies and other disgusting forms of sexual relations with no strings attached. Hell I find sex friends a deplorable immoral standard that doesn't involve love.

IrishPotato
07-24-2015, 01:15 PM
The cheating is a broad cancer that I despise. It's as bad when I hear about sugar daddies and other disgusting forms of sexual relations with no strings attached. Hell I find sex friends a deplorable immoral standard that doesn't involve love.

*casually slips away*

BhastetKurza
07-24-2015, 01:34 PM
The cheating is a broad cancer that I despise. It's as bad when I hear about sugar daddies and other disgusting forms of sexual relations with no strings attached. Hell I find sex friends a deplorable immoral standard that doesn't involve love.

http://media.giphy.com/media/9CvWZTFXyNBio/giphy.gif

KingScuba
07-24-2015, 04:17 PM
the idea of ashley madison isn't ok in my books.

however, it's nothing short of cyber terrorism for the hackers to make that demand.

The people who use ashley madison are paying customers who have been promised their anonymity. It's the customers right to stay anonymous.

I sincerely hope the hackers are found and thrown in prison for a few years.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 04:39 PM
the idea of ashley madison isn't ok in my books.

however, it's nothing short of cyber terrorism for the hackers to make that demand.

The people who use ashley madison are paying customers who have been promised their anonymity. It's the customers right to stay anonymous.

I sincerely hope the hackers are found and thrown in prison for a few years.

My question here is: Are they doing it for the greater good?
37 million confirmed cheaters are nothing to scoff at. (Give or take a few dummies or alts.)

KingScuba
07-24-2015, 06:24 PM
My question here is: Are they doing it for the greater good?
37 million confirmed cheaters are nothing to scoff at. (Give or take a few dummies or alts.)

no. No they're not. slimebuckets will still cheat on their significant others, regardless of the site being there.

SeventhArchon
07-24-2015, 06:26 PM
no. No they're not. slimebuckets will still cheat on their significant others, regardless of the site being there.

Good point. Anyway there's been this idea of the hackers doing it purely for media attention. How likely is that?
Could be someone adept at hacking getting paranoid or devastated with being cheated on...Human nature can't be predicted.

RippleApple
07-25-2015, 02:07 AM
Either break up with them or buy a goddamn onahole.

KingScuba
07-25-2015, 04:40 PM
Good point. Anyway there's been this idea of the hackers doing it purely for media attention. How likely is that?
Could be someone adept at hacking getting paranoid or devastated with being cheated on...Human nature can't be predicted.

very unlikely imo. The hacker could very well have found out their spouse or their friends spouse was using the site though I guess... I can't see it as anything but someone stomping their feet to get their way.

Grimfortress
07-29-2015, 04:43 AM
however, it's nothing short of cyber terrorism for the hackers to make that demand.
The people who use ashley madison are paying customers who have been promised their anonymity. It's the customers right to stay anonymous.
I sincerely hope the hackers are found and thrown in prison for a few years.

At the end of the day, I think this is the most important point. We live in a nation where no one has the right to impose their morality fully upon another citizen. Regardless of what our opinions of cheating on romantic relationships and oath breaking is, the hackers violated the law.