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CaptainDoomsday
03-26-2015, 08:48 PM
Beads and aegis are brilliant items to have. With pinpoint timing or prediction, they shrug off even an ult.
Then are worthless for minutes.
Both of them, considering the amount of heavy hits and CC flying around the game these days, need reduced cooldowns. My ideal would halved, but 30% off would suffice. They still require skill to get any benefit from, and Chang'e already has a free Aegis built into her, so I'm not compelled by any cries of OP on that front.
Ares or Fenrir may not have many ults land as a result of this, but if they've forced the enemy team to fill an active slot with beads or aegis, they've already done a good job.
Basically, if beads/aegis are supposed to be the solution to every offensive CC, they should work more than once every 3 ults after 900 gold. That's ults from a single god; any regular skill with brutal CC (Anubis' 2, Pos' whirlpool, etc) mocks beads. You escape once, then get hit by a fresh try within 10 seconds.

Trubblegum
03-26-2015, 08:51 PM
Thats why you dont beads when some ass slows you for no reason.

CaptainDoomsday
03-26-2015, 08:52 PM
I only ever beads ults that would kill me. They still fall consistently short.

Renoa
03-27-2015, 11:19 AM
Both of them, considering the amount of heavy hits and CC flying around the game these days, need reduced cooldowns. My ideal would halved, but 30% off would suffice. They still require skill to get any benefit from, and Chang'e already has a free Aegis built into her, so I'm not compelled by any cries of OP on that front.

They require you to press 1 button. Pressing one button doesn't take any skill...unless you've got no fingers, then yes, I guess.


Ares or Fenrir may not have many ults land as a result of this, but if they've forced the enemy team to fill an active slot with beads or aegis, they've already done a good job.

Currently most squishes already get beads even if enemy team doesn't have that much of a hard cc. Even with 90s cd on them. There's no need to force anything.



Basically, if beads/aegis are supposed to be the solution to every offensive CC, they should work more than once every 3 ults after 900 gold.

They are not supposed to be the solution to every cc. And they already work much more often than once every 3 ults.

__________________________________________________ ___

High cd's on these items require players to think a little bit before doing something stupid. Low cd's will result in tons of idiots rushing in a fight and trying to do something on their own. There's already plenty of them in Smite. No need for more.

HawkboyJr
03-27-2015, 06:52 PM
The best counter to any attack is not being there. Don't engage if they're going to be able to kill you before you can kill them.

GoldenSkill
03-28-2015, 06:55 PM
press a button is not skill. timing, is.
if they are going to make aegis and beads spammable, no need for player skills anymore.
many gods will be underrated. including poseidon. in this case, he must be buffed giving him mobility and tankiness.
many others too.

CaptainDoomsday
03-29-2015, 01:28 PM
That's amazingly ironic that pressing a button isn't skill, so the ults that hit everyone for certain kills are skillful while the precisely-timed windows to avoid them are not. If necessary, cut the immunity time of the acitves, making them more like parries. You know, those things in fighting games that require immense skill?

"Even if the enemy team doesn't have much CC". You mean the only situation in which beads are of any use? If there's a lot of hard CC, it's one to waste beads, then the other while beads are down, and the next round of ults is free.

The point is that, 1v1, beads and aegis are awesome. Against even two enemies with hard CC, they're a joke.

HawkboyJr
03-29-2015, 05:47 PM
Don't go in 2v1 unless you can kill them before they can kill you. Free kills off an ultimate aren't skillful, they're simply punishing the opponent who misplayed (reinforcing skill in a different way). The skill intensive part of using an ultimate is when your opponent doesn't make an enormous error by going in 2v1 against a duo (s)he will get nuked by, forcing a significant amount of set-up before the ultimate can be deployed effectively.

democidist
03-31-2015, 02:22 PM
You guys don't get that he's not talking about going 3v1 or 5v1, he's talking about playing against people that are half-way competent and know to focus the squishy gods on your team first and to not waste all their ults on a support. Regardless there is more than just ults that can CC or CC-Chain a squishy easily long enough for them to be guaranteed dead. Even in an even fight if a player knows what they're doing they'll be using it on the squishy more often than not, and that is the god that needs beads up frequently.

VarenWolf
03-31-2015, 02:27 PM
Its a matter of decision and what you believe the outcome will be I only beads if one its a cc putting me in a better set up spot or if the cc will get me killed after. both basically same thing. Beads is for getting you out of that one instance were you would die.

Jezereal
03-31-2015, 02:31 PM
Thats why you dont beads when some ass slows you for no reason.
Holy ... this made me laugh so hard. And I have no idea why, just perfect though. Made my day.
As for beads and egis, they are fine. If you are REALLY struggling with stuff, get magi's and maybe winged blade. Beads got a long, arse cool down. But how would you feel if any god you played, suddenly had no cc. If artemis had a boar that only did damage? Traps that didn't root etc... That's what I'm imagining with the cd reduction, you so much as look at someone wrong and they beads.
They way it is now, people beads out of very FEW alts, ares/hunbatz etc.. the TRULY TRULY bad ones, that result in big combo plays. Active items are there to save yo arse, in a MISTAKES WERE MADE situation. Not a I'm under nox's silence cc situation.

HawkboyJr
03-31-2015, 03:38 PM
You guys don't get that he's not talking about going 3v1 or 5v1, he's talking about playing against people that are half-way competent and know to focus the squishy gods on your team first and to not waste all their ults on a support. Regardless there is more than just ults that can CC or CC-Chain a squishy easily long enough for them to be guaranteed dead. Even in an even fight if a player knows what they're doing they'll be using it on the squishy more often than not, and that is the god that needs beads up frequently.
In that case, if you want to beat them you should also be halfway competent and know the ranges and effects of your opponent's abilities and position yourself accordingly. If you’re hanging out on the front line as a squishy, you should be punished. If you didn’t ward properly and don’t have vision of the players out flanking you, you should be punished. If you don’t reposition effectively in response to the evolving game state, you should be punished. These are all errors you made prior to being cc chained for the kill and the resulting team fight rests squarely on your head.

CaptainDoomsday
03-31-2015, 03:50 PM
You realize that even halved CC on beads would still only allow them to be used once a battle, and perhaps once more during a chase? That is, if your team coordinates CC, you can force beads, then hit with additional CC while nothing can be done about it. Or hit with skills like Ymir's stun, Khumba's root, Anubis' wrap, etc, which STILL cool down at a fraction of the beads' speed?
Even halved, how many times would Aegis protect against Nu Wa ults? Supposing that's the only thing that could provoke it and ignoring all other potential needs for it. And also not denying vision.
You also realize that this is an ITEM being buffed, meaning that anyone on any team can obtain it? The same potential and benefit is available to everyone.
Beads and aegis also must be purchased to be used, occupying an active slot which could have been used for other items. If you've pressured someone into buying beads (benefitting themself), you've spared your team potential subjugation to Curses or Girdle (benefitting up to the entire team).

And that's halved. Reduced by 1/3rd, the only situations where Beads could become OP are 1v1 Jousts against Fenrir, Ares, Artemis, or perhaps Hun Batz.

HawkboyJr
03-31-2015, 04:14 PM
If you bait something like an ultimate during a skirmish, you no longer have to worry about that ultimate during the next team fight. Beads and Aegis currently work similarly. If you reduce their cooldown, you reduce the importance of effective use, because next team fight or next skirmish they’re almost guaranteed to be up again, stripping a layer of strategy from Smite.
Beads and Aegis are also already two of the most popular and bought actives making “forcing” players to get them a laughable turn of phrase, they’d simply become even more staple.
You want to know how to counter Ymir’s freeze and Ares’ chains? Don’t stand near them unless you have a reason to. They’re extremely short ranged skills, they’re slow moving and telegraphed like a Chaac ultimate. Stop rushing into bad positions without the tools to sustain it or a reason for being there and you won’t need beads and aegis every 30 seconds, it’s that simple.

CaptainDoomsday
04-01-2015, 11:18 AM
Well, I like the insinuation that I blindly run face-first into Ares on sight, but there is, in fact, an active called Blink, of which a decent Ares player will be quite fond. It's really not rocket science to build CDR on any inescpapable CC ult and then just aim for the same god twice. Or three times, while the beads are still down.

I just favor actual coordination of a team and well-timed use of resources more than "press CC to win". If someone pops beads to escape something, they break even (minus any damage taken). If a brutally long CC or global ult they knew was coming, but could do nothing about kills them, it's a heavy benefit to the other team. Make teams coordinate CC and learn to focus for that benefit instead of handing it to them on a platter every 50 seconds (100 with beads3). By your reasoning, they might as well remove beads, since everyone should just be expected to never be hit with CC abilities and they're already too relied-upon.

If an Ares gets beadsed out of his ult EVERY TIME, but his team then goes to town on the enemy's, he's done his job, and a 30% reduction in the item's cooldown wouldn't prevent this from being the case.

HawkboyJr
04-01-2015, 01:59 PM
But it would inherently make them an even better item, despite it already being one of the best, if not the best active. Most ultimates have cc immunity on them, feel free to use yours to hard counter Ares and hold on to your beads for another situation, if beads are that precious. Blindly cc spamming someone doesn’t work, that’s why it’s not used in competitive play. If you cc spam someone who isn’t out of position, they may or may not die, but everyone who hard initiated on that person is now going to be in the heart of your team on full cooldown, with 4 fresh players ready to go. Can you say deicide?
You’re suggesting a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. If it becomes a problem in the future, we can come back to this as a potential solution, but for now it only creates problems.

CaptainDoomsday
04-02-2015, 12:26 AM
Maybe the problem's lesser in Conquest (for beads specifically), but every other game mode has enough proximity that beads are simply ineffectual the majority of the time. Many stuns still not worth using beads on require skill, but free hits shouldn't be rewarded for spamming.

Consider the Aegis. It's fastest CD is 120 seconds. Nu Wa's new ult, vision aside, can be activated every 110 seconds with no CDR, but you know she'll have at least 35%. This means that with NO skill whatsoever, not even the blink-4 coordination Ares requires to ult a group, Nu Wa can get a free and potentially fatal blow on the entire enemy team. Just for mashing ult. No teamwork, no thinking, here's your reward for picking this god, and someone able to perfectly time their aegis to block it while in a position to not be punished for it gets nothing for that. 50% of the time.

Beads SHOULD be up at the start of every normally-spaced battle. It demands coordination from a team or forethought and/or aggression from a single opponent, not freekill CCs working 70% of the time. Besides that, you know there are gods with built-in beads, many of which don't even need to ult for them. Are they ALL overpowered? Xbalanque can throw out a better bead every few seconds and he's not shutting down the game.

HawkboyJr
04-02-2015, 02:42 AM
Siege is the same as Conquest and the issue in Arena and Joust is that people have limited to no concept of team building in those game modes. Arena should have 3 bulky characters (ranging from bruiser to tank) or 2 and a healer, meaning the majority of the team doesn't care about cc chains, while in Joust you should have a dedicated tank and a bruiser, once again rendering a cc chain strategy ineffectual.

Trubblegum
04-02-2015, 10:19 AM
Siege is the same as Conquest and the issue in Arena and Joust is that people have limited to no concept of team building in those game modes. Arena should have 3 bulky characters (ranging from bruiser to tank) or 2 and a healer, meaning the majority of the team doesn't care about cc chains, while in Joust you should have a dedicated tank and a bruiser, once again rendering a cc chain strategy ineffectual.

Not always, but generally true. Teams with a more tanky comp generally come out on top, especially in teamfights. In Conquest, generally the only ones building tank are the supports and solo if they picked a warrior, but in arena, I've seen upwards of 3 tanks in one match. Granted, they lack a little bit of damage, but they also render the enemy assassins and hunters useless, though a properly built assassin can still take down a tank, given enough time.

TenWildAbras
04-02-2015, 03:44 PM
Honestly, I think beads should always be on when you buy them. Just constantly 24/7, never being able to be CC.
Since there is so much CC in Smite, I don't want to use beads the times that I am stuck in a bad situation. I want to be constantly in bad situations and still be able to break out.

When my beads are down, I still like to engage on an Ares while his allies are near by, because beads should always be on.


^ That is what I hear when someone request cooldown for beads. Beads are not a counter to ultimate, despite what people say. Beads are in case you do get caught. If you are constantly being grabbed by an Ares ult... you have problems. If you decrease the cooldown of beads, CC gods will be almost useless, and the whole plan of "We'll knockdown their beads and then strike" will be broken. Because it's hard to re-plan a good attack in less than 45 seconds. Specially when people just backing and getting back to lane is most of the time.

Don't think of beads as a counter to ultimate, see them as an escape rope when you are in a bad situation.

GroundStorm
04-04-2015, 10:54 PM
Beads are not meant to be used very often since the game is built around conquest and if your team knows what they are doing they are farming and not trying to start team battles all the time. Almost all team battles that are not near end game objectives are around GF/FG. A lot of the pro's actually use beads not to prevent damage but to remove slows while chasing a god they want to finish off

CaptainDoomsday
04-06-2015, 10:04 PM
Even if they are useful in conquest, they're pathetic in every other mode, especially considering how much CC is unavoidable. If Conquest players were more adventerous than the standard meta, they might also discover that you can just drop a Fenrir on the same lane twice and get a near-guaranteed kill desptie beads3.

I won't fight on behalf of Conquest, but could beads at least cooldown usefully in other modes? I know it's not impossible to program: League of Legends has plenty of items work differently in unique situations.

democidist
04-09-2015, 03:12 PM
In that case, if you want to beat them you should also be halfway competent and know the ranges and effects of your opponent's abilities and position yourself accordingly. If you’re hanging out on the front line as a squishy, you should be punished. If you didn’t ward properly and don’t have vision of the players out flanking you, you should be punished. If you don’t reposition effectively in response to the evolving game state, you should be punished. These are all errors you made prior to being cc chained for the kill and the resulting team fight rests squarely on your head.

A. "Half-way competent" includes not, "hanging out in the front line as a squishy". It's not that hard to walk past the front line unless it includes Athena or Ymir. Additionally, Blink initiation is a thing.
B. I was referring to a situation without ganks, you know, when both teams know what they're getting into and can see all of their enemies.
C. It's really not hard to wait for for the immunity from beads to be over and hit a player with a second hard CC.
.
I was not trying to argue for or against a shorter cooldown on beads. I just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts on the topic were and clarify that every player doesn't constantly charge head-long into bad situations.

Snikeduden
04-10-2015, 07:16 PM
Beads rank 3 got the same cooldown as most ultimates without CDR. I find this quite balanced.

CaptainDoomsday
04-10-2015, 11:45 PM
If you're 1v1ing someone who only has life-ending CC on thier ult, yes, it is.