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SeventhArchon
03-18-2015, 11:33 AM
Posting this to see what the internet (or a tiny fraction thereof) thinks of it right now, in this present day.

Intended as a civil discussion thread, I was trying to find out why people support feminism, more evidence and opinions on people from a different society.



Also @Anyone who is a mod. This person is trying to start a flame war with other users to shut this topic down. And I highly beg you not to close this from one troll, this person is a new forum member and is clearly starting drama. But it should not lead to closing this topic as everyone else was having a civil discussion on the subject. So please refrain from deleting this topic. Thank you.
It seems the thread has evolved into a discussion several people would like to continue in a civil manner without trying to mindlessly throw insults. If you want to close it, I'll appreciate if you say why.


you can skip my posts also. If wont the moderation, I would gladly accept that.
I'd also really appreciate if the forums didn't get censored due to people disagreeing and baiting offensive replies. This was meant to be a controversial discussion and while not meant to be an insult thread, it isn't and has many valid points presented in a very acceptable way.

Do you think they want what they say they want? Hypocrites? Are they necessary and where?
As for me, I'm pro-equality, therefore anti-feminist. The "good" feminists are few and far between, whereas the other ones are deceitful or deceived by wanting "equality", which in their crooked sense means getting the benefits of men while keeping the advantages of women. What the "good" feminists don't realize is that they don't belong, they're recruiting greedy, vengeful bitches to a oppression-reversal cause under the name of equality. If 3 feminists recruit in the name of equality, they may get 3 more good ones, but with them come 200 strong, independent women who can't be arsed to lift one box. I could post a million "modern feminism" gifs here, but you've seen them all by now. As for the "third-world feminist movements", that's a different thing. There are thousands upon thousands of abused women who I sympathize with and not in the very slightest the ones who exploit their names so they don't have to shave their legs.
I'll update this to post a few good examples of feminists unveiling their intentions. If you're a feminist, think about which kind you are before being offended.
1. I feel sorry for every pro-equality person being bashed for someone else thinking they're this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80)

RippleApple
03-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Everyone's allowed to have an opinion, regardless of race, creed, sex or sexual orientation.

Feminism's point is supposed to be that women get to share their opinions like men did, women get the same rights that men did and that there's no such thing as "Just a woman."

I also feel that there are women who want nothing but to hurt men, whether they realize it or not. Women that don't want men to share their opinion on feminism, women that essentially want what is affirmative action for the female gender and effectively tell dissenting men "You're just a man, what do you know about our struggle?"

It isn't just feminists, honestly, no matter how bad people try to paint them. Men's rights activists think women don't understand them, religious folks of different types have artificial divides between each other and minority groups prefer to leave that upper middle-class white dude out of their internet argument about how all police are racist.

I think it's insane. Absolutely insane, and fueled by nothing more than hate. I think we need to have the courage to call it what it is: Not "Reverse-Oppression". You don't need to coin some kind of term like that. It needs to be called "Hate" and "Prejudice".

SeventhArchon
03-18-2015, 03:46 PM
Everyone's allowed to have an opinion, regardless of race, creed, sex or sexual orientation.
If you mean the first part of it, then it's absolutely irrelevant to the point. If not, have your opinion all you want, do not ask for it to be imposed on everyone else.
Feminism's point is supposed to be that women get to share their opinions like men did, women get the same rights that men did and that there's no such thing as "Just a woman."
"equality", which in their crooked sense means getting the benefits of men while keeping the advantages of women. This is what I said in the original text and pretty much applies to this sentence in general.
I also feel that there are women who want nothing but to hurt men, whether they realize it or not. Women that don't want men to share their opinion on feminism, women that essentially want what is affirmative action for the female gender and effectively tell dissenting men "You're just a man, what do you know about our struggle?"
In the previous part you said they (and by "they", I mean the hypocritical feminists) don't want to be treated as "just women", yet here, you acknowledge they have no qualms about being condescending to "just men" (Not a criticism not argument against you, just pointing out the proof you added to my statement)
It isn't just feminists, honestly, no matter how bad people try to paint them. Men's rights activists think women don't understand them, religious folks of different types have artificial divides between each other and minority groups prefer to leave that upper middle-class white dude out of their internet argument about how all police are racist.
Feminists aren't the only ones in the wrong, however, they're one of the most impactful groups out there, strategically asking for "only a little more". But if you get 1% added 50 times, isn't it more than let's say 10% at once?
I think it's insane. Absolutely insane, and fueled by nothing more than hate. I think we need to have the courage to call it what it is: Not "Reverse-Oppression". You don't need to coin some kind of term like that. It needs to be called "Hate" and "Prejudice".
Indeed it is. We don't need any courage here other than standing up for true equality and not letting radical feminists wither away our decency bit by bit. Oppression reversal is not a newly-coined term, it is the definition of these acts. Hate and prejudice is just a general term for what they do, and what we all know.

Last thing, the reason I haven't stated the progress of feminism into society is that it varies. You'd see differences from household to household. Society hasn't united nor decided what it wants to do with this.

Loulina
03-18-2015, 04:27 PM
I think we can always put our "i am human" glasses on whenever we want to analyze things objectively but men and women are very different and thus are not equals on many levels. When they are biologically so different I dont get the idea how they can be equal anywhere anytime. When you have to go away to deliver a baby and take care of her..how can you be equal to a man in work environment in terms of allowances? you cant. but all can be arranged by someone wearing an "i am human" glasses, i am guessing.
Also it makes life dull to think men and women are equal. How come? my boyfriend's hands are always warmer just like my father's and brother's. I have never met a man whose hands are colder than mine and it is a wonderful thing. Because my hand can fit into my father's hand when i make it a fist and he can warm it up for me as he always does. How can I tell now that we are equal? I would never think of doing such a nice thing to begin with. I was thinking my father invented it but no my boyfriend know it,too. and once in the dark while we were walking home suddenly our neighbour's dog got loose and attacked me..did nothing but i was going crazy because it was dark i couldnt even see what it was but nothing happened to my brother and he carried me to home. I cant carry my brother to home. I am not equal. On the other hand he is dumb. I was always smarter than him, did better at school :P see? still we are not equal :D
Anyway, I think feminists are boring. I think men and women should love each other not being equal..it is really fun that way and this a fact that they are not equal.

SeventhArchon
03-18-2015, 04:52 PM
I think we can always put our "i am human" glasses on whenever we want to analyze things objectively but men and women are very different and thus are not equals on many levels. When they are biologically so different I dont get the idea how they can be equal anywhere anytime. When you have to go away to deliver a baby and take care of her..how can you be equal to a man in work environment in terms of allowances? you cant. but all can be arranged by someone wearing an "i am human" glasses, i am guessing.
Also it makes life dull to think men and women are equal. How come? my boyfriend's hands are always warmer just like my father's and brother's. I have never met a man whose hands are colder than mine and it is a wonderful thing. Because my hand can fit into my father's hand when i make it a fist and he can warm it up for me as he always does. How can I tell now that we are equal? I would never think of doing such a nice thing to begin with. I was thinking my father invented it but no my boyfriend know it,too. and once in the dark while we were walking home suddenly our neighbour's dog got loose and attacked me..did nothing but i was going crazy because it was dark i couldnt even see what it was but nothing happened to my brother and he carried me to home. I cant carry my brother to home. I am not equal. On the other hand he is dumb. I was always smarter than him, did better at school :P see? still we are not equal :D
Anyway, I think feminists are boring. I think men and women should love each other not being equal..it is really fun that way and this a fact that they are not equal.

I really don't want to come off rude. Please take no offense to any of this.
I don't know how much you understood, but we're talking rights and oppression, not physical skill or romance.
Next thing (this isn't criticism, just explaining), I assume you meant "same", not "equal". Men and women are far from the same, but it doesn't mean they can't be equal. And by equal I mean in their value as a person. A man/woman is no more of a person than the other. They'll never be the same, and I know it would be a boring world. To be fair, I don't think I want to understand women, just to love them <3
On a side note, I admire your innocence. In the most positive way. Wish I could meet people like this in my life.

Loulina
03-18-2015, 05:13 PM
I really don't want to come off rude. Please take no offense to any of this.
I don't know how much you understood, but we're talking rights and oppression, not physical skill or romance.
Next thing (this isn't criticism, just explaining), I assume you meant "same", not "equal". Men and women are far from the same, but it doesn't mean they can't be equal. And by equal I mean in their value as a person. A man/woman is no more of a person than the other. They'll never be the same, and I know it would be a boring world. To be fair, I don't think I want to understand women, just to love them <3
On a side note, I admire your innocence. In the most positive way. Wish I could meet people like this in my life.


physicality is base of it...or the skills/differences that come with it. what makes men men and women women starts with physical existence so you cant ignore it. you have to start from there to better understand what we are talking about. and if they are different there at such fundamental level they can hardly be equal. this is a logical fact. from outside using your " human glass" you have to give or take to make them equal in most conditions. this is where feminism starts. I on the other hand dont think women should demand and deman if it isnt fun to do so, it is an insult to men intelligence and if women dont survive the way they deserve to survive it is the end of the men sooner or later as well. :) so feminism is as much boring as it is pointless.

Varchallion
03-18-2015, 06:45 PM
It's a complex issue today. Whilst I think it's horrible that women in many parts of the world are considered worth less than men around them, that there's societies and faiths that allow men to do as they please, however;

The one reason I refuse to refer to myself as a 'feminist' is because the feminist party (in Sweden at least) is extreme-left, is led by dolts and has zealots that can't argue for their beliefs and instantly pull the 'politically-correct'-card when you question them.

I also fail to see how putting them in the government would in any way improve the situation for women beyond our borders, so their speaking for women in Africa and the Middle-East to gain votes for parliment feels moot and outright deceptive. It's not like Sweden could step into, say Iceland, and tell them they had to change things, we don't have any sort of anything to back it up with.

Men and women are biologically different, yes, and no matter how much people may want it we can't make it so that men have to take 50% of the pregnancy on their shoulders. I also think it's wrong to say that 'everyone now has to split their homecare efforts 50/50' or 'we shall only put women into well paid high-up jobs until all important positions in society are equal' since that's a matter of the individual and not the society's business.

But that's just my thoughts on it. I'm not too bothered about politics to begin with - but I do like arguing with feminists who get super-upset and feel directly and personally attacked when I don't agree with their ideals. Mainly because my sister is very actively super-marxist-feminist and, well, we all know how teasing our siblings is fun.

RippleApple
03-18-2015, 07:51 PM
Why shouldn't we see things through the lens of being human? You're human, and I'm human. If you're going to claim that you deserve more help than me, then isn't that the same as claiming you're less than human, and thus victimizing yourself for more government assistance and societal pity?

How does that help women anywhere?

Obviously women should have maternity leave because it's unhealthy for the baby for the mother to continue working in most jobs late into pregnancy. Obviously women should be paid based on their merit instead of their gender.

But what about things like rape? When a woman is raped, it's a horrible act in virtually every walk of life. When a man is?

I gotta tell you every single one of the times I've told a feminist around other feminists that I was coerced into sex while I was with an ex-girlfriend they said that I must've wanted it because I'm a man. You can't ignore that these problems exist.

Trubblegum
03-18-2015, 09:53 PM
All I can tell you is that if you think about it, men don't rule the world.

Women do.

Loulina
03-19-2015, 03:06 AM
Why shouldn't we see things through the lens of being human? You're human, and I'm human. If you're going to claim that you deserve more help than me, then isn't that the same as claiming you're less than human, and thus victimizing yourself for more government assistance and societal pity?

How does that help women anywhere?

Obviously women should have maternity leave because it's unhealthy for the baby for the mother to continue working in most jobs late into pregnancy. Obviously women should be paid based on their merit instead of their gender.

But what about things like rape? When a woman is raped, it's a horrible act in virtually every walk of life. When a man is?

I gotta tell you every single one of the times I've told a feminist around other feminists that I was coerced into sex while I was with an ex-girlfriend they said that I must've wanted it because I'm a man. You can't ignore that these problems exist.

when a man is tortured, left in awkward physcal and psychological situations, is not given help when he needed or when raped, it is equally horrible.
but to save a man from a very awkward physical condition (lets say a case when he is drowning, he is being torrtured etc) is again can better be done by a man.so it means there should always be at least a group of man very well educated and sane and ethical for our civilizations to survive. and how they become sane,educated and ethical? in their families when they are being raised by their mother..A kid has his character developed mainly until he is about 6. This is where they have interactions mostly in the family and with the mother.annnd so that mother needs all that she can have (love,material benefits, protection etc etc and not only after she had the baby but from the moment she is born) to be able to give all that back to her environment or the civilization is in danger. It is like a big circle but whoever has the most power now can change it for the better.

RippleApple
03-19-2015, 03:49 AM
I'd rather stay at home and raise my children someday than go to work, honestly. My significant other also thinks the same way-- she'd rather work than stay at home and raise her children someday.

Being around people stresses me out. For someone who can't deal with stress due to deep depression, it's better psychologically for me not to be working if I can help it. I would be happier if I were experiencing a more peaceful life.

Myrkulyte
03-19-2015, 04:10 AM
I don't know what to say, cuz I met a lot of girls in 18 years.
On hand there is the strong section of girls, the ones who manipulate men/guys like an art, especially guys with weak personality.
Then the weak womens, the ones easy to manipulate and weak sentimentaly

We need to remember that mens aren't protected specificaly from womens in the civilised country. While the other way around... A women can slap a man(and don't tell me those claws don't hurt) and get unscathed if the hurt one is even remotely polite/educated. While we can't touch them without police/woman protection breaking next day into their house next day. A women even with an ounce of beauty can get anything a man want those days(sex, money, security) with little effort while we struggle for those. All she need to do is to know to use herself.

Continuation in an hour

FeistyDeity
03-19-2015, 04:36 AM
The key thing why a "somewhat-feminist" train of thought is still needed in western societies today is that some guys/girls, even subconsciously, aren't able to appreciate the same values among genders equally. Females have the same intellectual, creative and comical potential as males but are sometimes regarded differently if they show off these skills. Obviously not everyone does that anymore, but I'll give you an example: I have a very good relationship with my sister. She is smart and very funny and really helped me become more outgoing. We have a similar style of humour, opinions and to some extent personalities. However, when we meet new people and for example crack a joke, people don't always respond the same way. They'll usually laugh harder at me, even if we're being equally good company.

Though it may partly be out of pity because my sister is a beautiful young woman (is that weird to say about your own sister?) and I'm a 22-year old who is mostly bald already and stares at you weirdly because he only looks through one eye. :D

That being said I really dislike being PC or white-knighting (I'm only doing it here because it's within the realms of an intellectual discussions, and because the feminists are losing :P) and generally, if a girl has a good sense of humour she will have the wits to handle the occasional sexist remark.

Loulina
03-19-2015, 05:50 AM
I'd rather stay at home and raise my children someday than go to work, honestly. My significant other also thinks the same way-- she'd rather work than stay at home and raise her children someday.

Being around people stresses me out. For someone who can't deal with stress due to deep depression, it's better psychologically for me not to be working if I can help it. I would be happier if I were experiencing a more peaceful life.



yes, perfectly fine :) then you will want your partner to receive treatment like a man when wage policy is considered. studies show this is not the case most of the time. I on the other hand, dont think about having babies at the moment because i think there enough civilized people to secure the future of the mankind. until things turn around, i will stick to this decision of mine :D

I also believe that this world is a very personal world. I dont believe in big political ideals. There will always be huge problems and small problems that can do done nothing about unless people there at thet very moment care to do so. When you initiate a trouble on somebody else no law or rule may be able to compansate the harm that you have done. Political ideals dont work unless they are inherent in a human ethically. commism for example is a wonderful idea on paper but it wont work because it doesnt fit human nature and wont be possible any time soon.






I don't know what to say, cuz I met a lot of girls in 18 years.
On hand there is the strong section of girls, the ones who manipulate men/guys like an art, especially guys with weak personality.
Then the weak womens, the ones easy to manipulate and weak sentimentaly

We need to remember that mens aren't protected specificaly from womens in the civilised country. While the other way around... A women can slap a man(and don't tell me those claws don't hurt) and get unscathed if the hurt one is even remotely polite/educated. While we can't touch them without police/woman protection breaking next day into their house next day. A women even with an ounce of beauty can get anything a man want those days(sex, money, security) with little effort while we struggle for those. All she need to do is to know to use herself.

Continuation in an hour

I dont understand why a woman should try to slap a man given the physical strength difference unless she is in danger herself or felt so somehow. Well, it is always a personal choice in a personal world how much you will choose to grant a woman just because she is a woman or any other man or kid. it is difficult to suggest that women have some magical staff that can make you do things.

RippleApple
03-19-2015, 11:41 AM
Some people are easily-influenced by others and their opinions. Some people learn how to manipulate others like that early in their life by practicing on parents who care too much. Assigning it as a feminine trait might be stretching it though. Most manipulators and scam artists I've met have tended to be male.

Disquieted1
03-19-2015, 01:48 PM
Before I start on feminism, I'd first like to define what feminism is to me. Feminism is the promotion of women -- or the demotion of men -- so that women are greater than men. The reason I use this definition is because of egalitarianism. Here it is.

http://puu.sh/gH0mf/e8e4fe7616.png



Let's talk first OUTSIDE of cultural context. I will say, straight up, that feminism is wrong. Feminism seeks to make one gender greater than the other (in this case, women greater than men). It promotes, at its core, boasting and gloating, while shaming men. It makes accusations of men (e.g. "all men are rapists," and "men limit work and pay for women").

Side note: Do not misunderstand me. I don't mean to downplay women -- for there are great women out there that have done as much as, or more than, some men do. I'm merely speaking about the concept of feminism.

In a humanist era, feminism really shouldn't exist at all.



Now. WITHIN cultural context. (I will use the term egalitarianism instead of feminism, because of my definition above). This is where it gets highly subjective. I believe that every human has some irrevocable rights -- the rights to life, opportunity and expression. As far as egalitarianism goes, the degree to which I will agree on (with a people) depends on their culture. For example, in some Middle Eastern countries (some which are predominantly Muslim), women are inferior to men. I'm not sure if it's dictated within their holy scripts, or a derivative of it, but that's their religion (and for non-Muslims, their culture). It does not violate the three rights I wrote above -- therefore, egalitarianism doesn't apply there as much as it does in Cameroon.

I was in Cameroon for about four weeks, a few years ago. There, women are oppressed. Men can rape women on a moment's notice, kidnap them, and so on. It violates the rights of opportunity and expression. Therefore, I support egalitarianism there (on the womens' side).

Overall, egalitarianism, to me, is highly subjective and largely dependent on the case.

Myrkulyte
03-19-2015, 03:44 PM
Before I start on feminism, I'd first like to define what feminism is to me. Feminism is the promotion of women -- or the demotion of men -- so that women are greater than men. The reason I use this definition is because of egalitarianism. Here it is.

http://puu.sh/gH0mf/e8e4fe7616.png



Let's talk first OUTSIDE of cultural context. I will say, straight up, that feminism is wrong. Feminism seeks to make one gender greater than the other (in this case, women greater than men). It promotes, at its core, boasting and gloating, while shaming men. It makes accusations of men (e.g. "all men are rapists," and "men limit work and pay for women").

Side note: Do not misunderstand me. I don't mean to downplay women -- for there are great women out there that have done as much as, or more than, some men do. I'm merely speaking about the concept of feminism.

In a humanist era, feminism really shouldn't exist at all.



Now. WITHIN cultural context. (I will use the term egalitarianism instead of feminism, because of my definition above). This is where it gets highly subjective. I believe that every human has some irrevocable rights -- the rights to life, opportunity and expression. As far as egalitarianism goes, the degree to which I will agree on (with a people) depends on their culture. For example, in some Middle Eastern countries (some which are predominantly Muslim), women are inferior to men. I'm not sure if it's dictated within their holy scripts, or a derivative of it, but that's their religion (and for non-Muslims, their culture). It does not violate the three rights I wrote above -- therefore, egalitarianism doesn't apply there as much as it does in Cameroon.

I was in Cameroon for about four weeks, a few years ago. There, women are oppressed. Men can rape women on a moment's notice, kidnap them, and so on. It violates the rights of opportunity and expression. Therefore, I support egalitarianism there (on the womens' side).

Overall, egalitarianism, to me, is highly subjective and largely dependent on the case.

I think for this discussion we must stabilise some axioms/limits because there just can't be a general conclusion.

An axiom would be: 1)We speak about civilised medium+ economy countries.(Like RO, Spain, Ger, Bulgaria, Latvia etc) If we change this, the entire conclusion is useless like you said about Muslims.
2)We speak about what kind of womens? Someone like -let's say Lou- couldn't care less, while someone like Merkel(those are just names, IDK if the name connexion is valid) could abuse it...

Everything I say is within those 2 axioms. With the average and high rank women in sight.

IMO in those countries womens have all they need and anything more is just greed.
First of all, the society. The code of good manners favour womens like they are gods. Anywhere except restaurants and church the womens enter before the partner. Another example are the 'greetings' The women ask(nonverbal) for a handshake, the man can't initiate because it would be unpolite, wrong and forced. The only exception is when an old/important man initiate on a less important women. This is allowed.
Then the handshake rule in groups: women-women, women-men, men-men. In this order.
While it's true that the random folk have no ideea of those rules(most of the time), when you go up in social rank those become the norm. Let's not forget that for every man-only positionh there is also a woman-only position(take the word only as a predominant number)(an anecdotical example tought would be making roads and creating tunnels-the physical part. I know I won't hire a woman for that, and if I do, I would make sure she is sturdy and strong. Same I won't hire mens to be a secretary.)



The other rights: educationg, hospital, wage, etc are equal for both. There isn't really a huge difference between those 2 in those countries.

Loulina
03-19-2015, 04:06 PM
I think for this discussion we must stabilise some axioms/limits because there just can't be a general conclusion.

An axiom would be: 1)We speak about civilised medium+ economy countries.(Like RO, Spain, Ger, Bulgaria, Latvia etc) If we change this, the entire conclusion is useless like you said about Muslims.
2)We speak about what kind of womens? Someone like -let's say Lou- couldn't care less, while someone like Merkel(those are just names, IDK if the name connexion is valid) could abuse it...

Everything I say is within those 2 axioms. With the average and high rank women in sight.

IMO in those countries womens have all they need and anything more is just greed.
First of all, the society. The code of good manners favour womens like they are gods. Anywhere except restaurants and church the womens enter before the partner. Another example are the 'greetings' The women ask(nonverbal) for a handshake, the man can't initiate because it would be unpolite, wrong and forced. The only exception is when an old/important man initiate on a less important women. This is allowed.
Then the handshake rule in groups: women-women, women-men, men-men. In this order.
While it's true that the random folk have no ideea of those rules(most of the time), when you go up in social rank those become the norm. S

I like peoplecalling me Lou! :D yaaayyy!
but they are allsocial rules. there is nothing wrong with them. also there are logical things behind all these. for example in a restaurant gals are not gods. it is impolite if girl tries to pick the table. man decides where they should sit and he has to help her sit..because it looks good that way and some restaurants has bizzare chairs..she cant be dragging all that stuff in that lovely dress can she?. for example also when walking down the stairs, the man should go first, that way if the girl trips or falls the man is there is break her fall. When walking up the stairs, the girls go first, that way if she trips and fall the man is there to break her fall or help her up . you dont want to fall on any creature that is half your weight right? see? gravity and logic.

RippleApple
03-19-2015, 09:55 PM
I learned social etiquette at an early age, and chose to reject it. I'm nice to people I choose to be nice to when it's opportune to me. Now, I'm a nice guy, but when I'm in a bad mood, I'm in a bad mood. When it comes to being a woman's gentleman... the only one I care about is my significant other. I'll hold a door open for her every time, but not some random women in a public place.

ImAeternalis
03-21-2015, 05:34 PM
"Before I start on feminism, I'd first like to define what feminism is to me. Feminism is the promotion of women -- or the demotion of men -- so that women are greater than men. The reason I use this definition is because of egalitarianism. Here it is."

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a fool or is a man hater.

Women can have equality all they want. But that means no more turning on the tears to get what they want and no more "you can't hit me, I'm a girl" bullshit. No more complaining about their monthly chore. No more complaining about childbirth. No more "pull out my chair, be a gentleman." no more" hold the door open for the lady". no more "quit staring at my chest". no more expecting the male to pay for dinner. No more staying at home and working your husband's ass off. No more false rape accusations. No more always winning a divorce case. No more "don't talk to a girl like that". No more making up bullshit about a FALSE PAY GAP. NO MORE "BAN BOSSY".

Call me a misogynist all you want, women want equality? They got it. Stop wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Loulina
03-21-2015, 06:05 PM
"Before I start on feminism, I'd first like to define what feminism is to me. Feminism is the promotion of women -- or the demotion of men -- so that women are greater than men. The reason I use this definition is because of egalitarianism. Here it is."

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a fool or is a man hater.

Women can have equality all they want. But that means no more turning on the tears to get what they want and no more "you can't hit me, I'm a girl" bullshit. No more complaining about their monthly chore. No more complaining about childbirth. No more "pull out my chair, be a gentleman." no more" hold the door open for the lady". no more "quit staring at my chest". no more expecting the male to pay for dinner. No more staying at home and working your husband's ass off. No more false rape accusations. No more always winning a divorce case. No more "don't talk to a girl like that". No more making up bullshit about a FALSE PAY GAP. NO MORE "BAN BOSSY".

Call me a misogynist all you want, women want equality? They got it. Stop wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

I am not sure i understand your last paragraph and how being nice to others' realities may be against equality.for example does a girl have to say "you cant hit me, i am a girl" for a man not to hit a girl? or any stronger being has any reason to hurt anything that is weaker? let it be physical or mental hurt? so doesnt it also mean that a stronger man may have the right to hurt you whenever he wants?

also they may not have to complain but many women has to visit hospitals to better their childbirth process or monthly cycles due to considerable amount of pain that may go with both. so it is a part of their physical reality even if they complain about them or not.

yes, it is any man's or woman's choice not to open a door a woman, to a elderly, to a kid, to another guy carrrying packages or whoever is weaker than you or whoever looks like they may feel better if they used a little help. in return probably you will feel better just by doing that small thing that wont even cause you any trouble...you opened a door and a smile returned.

I dont now anything about false rape accusations. maybe she is hurt way too much to gain some sort of mental situation/psychological problem beforehand.it doesnt necessarily have to be a man, it can be another woman that hurt her,too to give her that mental problem. but why directed at man? I cant judge, I dont know..perhaps must be inspected individually. pay gap isnt false. also men find jobs easier.

Disquieted1
03-22-2015, 06:02 PM
I am not sure i understand your last paragraph and how being nice to others' realities may be against equality.for example does a girl have to say "you cant hit me, i am a girl" for a man not to hit a girl? or any stronger being has any reason to hurt anything that is weaker? let it be physical or mental hurt? so doesnt it also mean that a stronger man may have the right to hurt you whenever he wants?

also they may not have to complain but many women has to visit hospitals to better their childbirth process or monthly cycles due to considerable amount of pain that may go with both. so it is a part of their physical reality even if they complain about them or not.

yes, it is any man's or woman's choice not to open a door a woman, to a elderly, to a kid, to another guy carrrying packages or whoever is weaker than you or whoever looks like they may feel better if they used a little help. in return probably you will feel better just by doing that small thing that wont even cause you any trouble...you opened a door and a smile returned.

I dont now anything about false rape accusations. maybe she is hurt way too much to gain some sort of mental situation/psychological problem beforehand.it doesnt necessarily have to be a man, it can be another woman that hurt her,too to give her that mental problem. but why directed at man? I cant judge, I dont know..perhaps must be inspected individually. pay gap isnt false. also men find jobs easier.

He's talking about egalitarianism in a social context. In social context, men still must pay for dinner, hold open the door, pull out the chair, and so on. It's surprising that feminism still exists, because they already have political and economic equality -- and socially, are higher than men.

This video may help as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2OcKQ_mbiQ

There's a problem with the boys. And the problem is they say what they do because "she is a girl." I find that to be, indirectly, mocking men. If I were in their position, I would have the same response but I would say "because this is a fellow human."

Loulina
03-22-2015, 06:22 PM
these social rules has nothing to do with feminism. these are really specific things that make life easy, organized and polite within the framework of a common sense.. it is assumed that if you have invited the girl you should ask for the bill. it is impolite to make your guest pay let it be a woman or a man. if the other party says "let us share the bill" you have no obligation to pay alone.
you dont have to pull the chair. if the waiter pulls the chair, you can let him do it, you dont have to do it yourself if you dont want to. but a waiter in a good restaurant will always do that for a woman after showing your table.
you can slam the door behind you if you are in hurry or if you do not care who is following let it be a kid or an elderly or a woman or a man carrying packages.

the video is weird. I am sorry the kids had to be in that situation to teach adults a couple of lessons.

Disquieted1
03-22-2015, 07:01 PM
these social rules has nothing to do with feminism. these are really specific things that make life easy, organized and polite within the framework of a common sense.. it is assumed that if you have invited the girl you should ask for the bill. it is impolite to make your guest pay let it be a woman or a man. if the other party says "let us share the bill" you have no obligation to pay alone.
you dont have to pull the chair. if the waiter pulls the chair, you can let him do it, you dont have to do it yourself if you dont want to. but a waiter in a good restaurant will always do that for a woman after showing your table.
you can slam the door behind you if you are in hurry or if you do not care who is following let it be a kid or an elderly or a woman or a man carrying packages.

the video is weird. I am sorry the kids had to be in that situation to teach adults a couple of lessons.

It's common sense when you speak strictly about a guest/host relationship. Meaning, it applies to male/male outings and female/female outings. With the logic, women should pay when they ask a guy somewhere. That doesn't happen though.

Myrkulyte
03-23-2015, 01:55 AM
these social rules has nothing to do with feminism. these are really specific things that make life easy, organized and polite within the framework of a common sense.. it is assumed that if you have invited the girl you should ask for the bill. it is impolite to make your guest pay let it be a woman or a man. if the other party says "let us share the bill" you have no obligation to pay alone.
you dont have to pull the chair. if the waiter pulls the chair, you can let him do it, you dont have to do it yourself if you dont want to. but a waiter in a good restaurant will always do that for a woman after showing your table.
you can slam the door behind you if you are in hurry or if you do not care who is following let it be a kid or an elderly or a woman or a man carrying packages.

the video is weird. I am sorry the kids had to be in that situation to teach adults a couple of lessons.

You don`t understand his point. He-like me- say that womens have a lot of rights and are equal to mens in most situations(political and economical), while being superior to mens in others(social etiquette for example), and being inferior to them in no situation. And they still want more.

BlueFast
03-23-2015, 02:33 AM
There's an actual term for feminists like Anita Sarkeesian, etc. Feminazi.

Loulina
03-23-2015, 02:52 AM
It's common sense when you speak strictly about a guest/host relationship. Meaning, it applies to male/male outings and female/female outings. With the logic, women should pay when they ask a guy somewhere. That doesn't happen though.

that doesnt happen? I think there is a lot of prejudice going on at the moment. I also dont understand where you are living "where there are no such girls". Even when I was asked out I never obliged a man pay a bill alone if it is big one. if there is only coffee or tea sometimes i pay the whole bill sometimes the friend..and I have very like minded friends..If i dont like their attitude I dont meet them again. If a guy or girl invites me to a dinner and obliges me to pay the bill, I will hardly go anywhere with them again. it is a sign of their character as well.
I was always and strictly speaking regardless of gender when i was mentioning these social rules. They are logical thing to do if you think deep enough.

You don`t understand his point. He-like me- say that womens have a lot of rights and are equal to mens in most situations(political and economical), while being superior to mens in others(social etiquette for example), and being inferior to them in no situation. And they still want more.



I think you should watch the above video posted by diq again. They used kids in that video..they were that much desperate to make a message get to adult guys. I was so much shocked when they asked a kid to "slap her" with that tone of voice. that video is very very sad to show where humanity is and though I dont approve it they used kids, it was made because there was a need for it. and it is at such a basic level..at physical difference level. (the departure point of my thoughts on the issue as well) i am sad it is showing that men still cant even tolerate that difference and you are saying they are equal in other more complex areas of life like economical and political? do you really believe that?

Disquieted1
03-23-2015, 06:20 AM
that doesnt happen? I think there is a lot of prejudice going on at the moment. I also dont understand where you are living "where there are no such girls". Even when I was asked out I never obliged a man pay a bill alone if it is big one. if there is only coffee or tea sometimes i pay the whole bill sometimes the friend..and I have very like minded friends..If i dont like their attitude I dont meet them again. If a guy or girl invites me to a dinner and obliges me to pay the bill, I will hardly go anywhere with them again. it is a sign of their character as well.
I was always and strictly speaking regardless of gender when i was mentioning these social rules. They are logical thing to do if you think deep enough.




I think you should watch the above video posted by diq again. They used kids in that video..they were that much desperate to make a message get to adult guys. I was so much shocked when they asked a kid to "slap her" with that tone of voice. that video is very very sad to show where humanity is and though I dont approve it they used kids, it was made because there was a need for it. and it is at such a basic level..at physical difference level. (the departure point of my thoughts on the issue as well) i am sad it is showing that men still cant even tolerate that difference and you are saying they are equal in other more complex areas of life like economical and political? do you really believe that?

Makes sense. I was thinkingh along the lines of gender context, but everything else makes sense otherwise.

Just note that the one telling the kids to slap her was reading from a script. The man was an actor, the kids weren't.

Loulina
03-23-2015, 06:45 AM
Makes sense. I was thinkingh along the lines of gender context, but everything else makes sense otherwise.

Just note that the one telling the kids to slap her was reading from a script. The man was an actor, the kids weren't.

I understand he is an actor. it still sounded bad because i dont know..idk how well they are counselled before and after or if kids had their adults around, they seemed kind of alone and his voice is rather commanding when he said that they should hit her. i thought for a second seven year old would almost hit because he is too little.

KingScuba
03-23-2015, 08:52 PM
controversy ftw in the SD, just don't break the COC.

Feminism is a fine ideal, but the bulk of what make up the face of the "feminist movement" are people like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80

Personally, I never particularly thought it was a huge issue until a few years ago. I was raised to respect women, especially since my mother almost single-handedly raised me. It wasn't particularly driven into me, or ever pointed out, it was just a matter of fact that women could do whatever men could. She's a document control manager who also doubles as an IT. She practically made the document control system her entire company uses (They build power plants, Roads, bridges, ETC), and can learn anything within about 3 months.

In societies like the middle east, their concept of women is fairly alien to me. That the women have no rights, and are supposed to be practically slaves is just weird to me and I don't like the idea. However it is their culture, and you need to respect it.

Now in stuff like construction (As in, working with their tools), it's fairly obvious women won't generally be able to do what men do. The guys in my industry work 7 12's, and bust their balls. They need to constantly lift heavy objects and put some serious force on stuff. Men are simply physically stronger, so women can't compete in this area. That isn't to say women can't be on their tools, it's just generally they'll go through other avenues. I knew several female welders, a few pipe fitters, and a millwright.

Personally, I think these feminists should stop "fighting" for this and simply show they can. I'm of the "Pro-equality" area. There are for sure cases where women will be overlooked for a job simply because they're women. But There's also places where women need to be drug down a few pegs because they're above men in certain cases.


@disq, it's certainly the case here in America where women have a higher status than men. If you're talking about children and who gets first dibs, it WILL be the mother. They also get a right to alimony and hold the upper hand in court. It's disgusting to think about.

Here's a couple examples just from my experience.

My stepfather's ex wife was a complete pile of shit. She was left in charge of the house expenses, and he would send everything in his check but what he needed for food, a 12 pack of beer, and rent for his camper when he was working (Like 2000 a week went to the house, while he lived off of about 120 a week). The wife spent it ALL on frivilous crap. She went on vacation, bought dresses/jewelry, never cooked, etc. She then got caught in a money laundering scheme, and didn't pay the house mortgage, car payments, or anything else for about 4 months. She pissed away about 1 million USD on this scam (Literally everything my stepfather had spent his entire life working for, including 4 F150s, 4 ATV's, a jetski, his house, and his gun collection... he was ready to retire). Then she went to the church my stepfather grew up in, and told them he had abandoned her and his children. So they were getting food, clothes, and support from the church. She also alienated his children, so they thought he was a piece of shit.... when he was sending them almost his entire paycheck. He divorced her, and married my mother. During the divorce (Which stretched for almost 2 years, in which she continued to rape his credit and alienate his children from him) she was awarded alimony for the next 3 years, his motorcycle, the house, and his truck. This was because the judge took one look at his income, then looked at her income, and didn't even consider what she did to him... How the fuck is this fair?

A friend of mine from construction divorced his wife. The wife never bought the children new clothes, so they were in the middle of winter with spandex and t-shirts with holes (While she had a new car, jewelry, etc). She also never cooked, nor did she really pay any attention to her kids (This is the main reason he divorced her). My friend was obviously livid, and bought his children new coats, and took her to court for custody. The judge ruled against him, so the kids are living in a run down trailer in the middle of Tennessee, instead of a nice house being properly cared for.... How is this right?


Obviously there's men who are absolute piles of shit, but that's humanity in generally. It really pisses me off that women get the upper leg politically in these kind of cases, and men are left to rot usually. I see it happen all the time..



Onto a comical story. Down here in Florida, there's a change happening in the bar and nightclub scene. So you know the stereotypical bouncer is a big buff man who can whip your ass without breaking a sweat. This means that men who get a little liquid courage see these bouncers as a challenge, and will start fights. However, they're using the "Men don't hit women" idea to their advantage.

So these bars are hiring little grandmas in their 50s and 60s to be bouncers. Seriously, what are you going to do when an old woman comes poke you in the chest and tells you to get out of the bar? You're going to leave. If you hit her, you now have an entire BAR crowd as a bouncer, and you'll get sent to the hospital.

RippleApple
03-23-2015, 11:25 PM
My stepfather's ex wife was a complete pile of shit. She was left in charge of the house expenses, and he would send everything in his check but what he needed for food, a 12 pack of beer, and rent for his camper when he was working (Like 2000 a week went to the house, while he lived off of about 120 a week). The wife spent it ALL on frivilous crap. She went on vacation, bought dresses/jewelry, never cooked, etc. She then got caught in a money laundering scheme, and didn't pay the house mortgage, car payments, or anything else for about 4 months. She pissed away about 1 million USD on this scam (Literally everything my stepfather had spent his entire life working for, including 4 F150s, 4 ATV's, a jetski, his house, and his gun collection... he was ready to retire). Then she went to the church my stepfather grew up in, and told them he had abandoned her and his children. So they were getting food, clothes, and support from the church. She also alienated his children, so they thought he was a piece of shit.... when he was sending them almost his entire paycheck. He divorced her, and married my mother. During the divorce (Which stretched for almost 2 years, in which she continued to rape his credit and alienate his children from him) she was awarded alimony for the next 3 years, his motorcycle, the house, and his truck. This was because the judge took one look at his income, then looked at her income, and didn't even consider what she did to him... How the fuck is this fair?

A friend of mine from construction divorced his wife. The wife never bought the children new clothes, so they were in the middle of winter with spandex and t-shirts with holes (While she had a new car, jewelry, etc). She also never cooked, nor did she really pay any attention to her kids (This is the main reason he divorced her). My friend was obviously livid, and bought his children new coats, and took her to court for custody. The judge ruled against him, so the kids are living in a run down trailer in the middle of Tennessee, instead of a nice house being properly cared for.... How is this right?

This is why guns are legal.

Loulina
03-24-2015, 04:42 AM
This is why guns are legal.

dont say so

it is really bad courts didnt look at her alienting the kids from the father fact and only looked at the income . it is worst thing a mother can do. this is the reason i am saying this is a personal world. whatever our experinces are we are focusing on them. when we have real bad experiences we forget to look at the positive aspects sometimes and try to judge the whole on that bad experinces. most feminists try to do that i think. but many men are great unlike the ones they met and made a hell out of their lives.

AllknowingWolf
04-23-2015, 01:30 PM
Well ignoring the wiki. Which is not what the movement is. All equality groups are hypocrites. Because they all only focus on one group and its success which is the very idea of inequality. They don't care about equality they just want more than another group does, they will never be happy with what they get. And then you get to what EXACTLY does that group support. Such as certain feminists that think any trans are not women and do not deserve what they have. Basically in general its a non-useful thing that exists at best (because all it does is add stereotypes that women shouldn't want associated with them. And there are next to no individuals that are against the general cause of live and let live. It creates a false problem where there is none.) And a way to censor and destroy at worst like most stuff involving gaming.

SeventhArchon
04-24-2015, 04:40 AM
Well ignoring the wiki. Which is not what the movement is. All equality groups are hypocrites. Because they all only focus on one group and its success which is the very idea of inequality. They don't care about equality they just want more than another group does, they will never be happy with what they get. And then you get to what EXACTLY does that group support. Such as certain feminists that think any trans are not women and do not deserve what they have. Basically in general its a non-useful thing that exists at best (because all it does is add stereotypes that women shouldn't want associated with them. And there are next to no individuals that are against the general cause of live and let live. It creates a false problem where there is none.) And a way to censor and destroy at worst like most stuff involving gaming.

The wiki article was probably written by a feminist. Freedom for gaming designers is a very mild extent of what they plan to destroy. You'll probably see most men working in dirty manual labor with quarter of a woman's pay if it goes too far. Did I mention the same thing on the other side, MRAs, are the vilest of scum and the root of all oppression?

Disquieted1
05-03-2015, 12:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNrWuZV3jjw

Feminism is supported by men.

I fucking hate humans. They're hypocrites -- unreasonable yet try to reason with their twisted logic and their emotions, and "sense of duty" -- more specifically... "chivalry." Fuck chivalry.

If a woman punched me, I'd hit her back, no questions asked.

That's true equality.

ImAeternalis
05-03-2015, 12:22 PM
I fucking hate feminism and anyone who denotes themselves as one needs to fuck off and live under a rock.

ImAeternalis
05-03-2015, 12:28 PM
these social rules has nothing to do with feminism. these are really specific things that make life easy, organized and polite within the framework of a common sense..

If you truly believe it is common sense that women get more social rights than men then I really have to question your bias and intelligence.

-snip-

AllknowingWolf
05-03-2015, 12:51 PM
The problem with any race or sexual inequality, that people cry about, when it seems certain jobs have more men or etc. But when you bring up 90% percent of athletes are black. And nurses are 90% women. Why isn't anyone demanding equality?

Or complain about education but, there's good grants for being a women or being a difference race. But not the other way around.

Most failures are the individuals fault not anyone else, even if there is problems. Everyone in the world will deal with assholes that's just a fact of life. If someone doesn't treat you crap because you a women, you'll be treated like crap because your fat. Etc.

Reminds me of a story I heard yesterday, about sarah silverman, trying to lie about making less than a male comedian, WHEN context was added how he was asked to preform and was booked. And she had to ask and was a guest spot. Everyone who makes an inequality argument is greatly ignorant of the world. I'm sure sexism exists...but its probably worse for the ones your pointing your fingers at.

Feminism, especially cases I see now. Is censor what we don't like, attack anyone who disagrees, and pretend only white straight men think what we do is wrong.

Disquieted1
05-03-2015, 04:39 PM
The problem with any race or sexual inequality, that people cry about, when it seems certain jobs have more men or etc. But when you bring up 90% percent of athletes are black. And nurses are 90% women. Why isn't anyone demanding equality?

Or complain about education but, there's good grants for being a women or being a difference race. But not the other way around.

Most failures are the individuals fault not anyone else, even if there is problems.

Feminism, especially cases I see now. Is censor what we don't like, attack anyone who disagrees, and pretend only white straight men think what we do is wrong.
You really are the all knowing wolf.

AllknowingWolf
05-03-2015, 04:45 PM
You really are the all knowing wolf.

Just a minor explaination of that, when I used to roleplay on d&d websites, I once played an omnipotent two headed wolf that was called allknowing. So all the time when my nickname is that, people assume its because I have an ego but that's seriously not the case. Despite being politically incorrect what I said is certainly not wrong. Just sayin.

Loulina
05-03-2015, 05:03 PM
If you truly believe it is common sense that women get more social rights than men then I really have to question your bias and intelligence.



http://i.imgur.com/Ie03awm.gif


I'm probably getting in trouble for this, but I'm defending my opinion with an overly assholeish and vealous attitude. Do what you must, but...




no, it is ok. you are young. you will understand better when you get older. these topics are mostly raging materials for youngsters since their sexual identity and relations with opposite sex is not yet settled fully. Since I understand, it is no problem for me. it is totally a showcase of your own world.

AllknowingWolf
05-03-2015, 05:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNrWuZV3jjw

Feminism is supported by men.

I fucking hate humans. They're hypocrites -- unreasonable yet try to reason with their twisted logic and their emotions, and "sense of duty" -- more specifically... "chivalry." Fuck chivalry.

If a woman punched me, I'd hit her back, no questions asked.

That's true equality.

I am curious what you believe, you seem to point out that hypocritical nature of the sexs. I assume the video is people getting pissed at a man defending himself against a women attacker. I've seen things like that.

But that is the thing, if people wanted equality they'd want women working hard construction jobs and break their backs...or in the work place, where guys have never and will never get offended by jokes. So, no sensitivity training would exist. But what they want is we want better treatment...And yeah, the horrible thing men do, is do everything in their power to make their girl happy. Holding doors and giving them special treatment. It like a quote of, 'a real woman can do it all by herself a real man wont let her.' Boyfriends don't think that women cant open a door...they do it because of hundreds of years of humans learning manners. So asking for equality honestly would mean treat us worse...and I really don't think anyone wants that.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2014/01/07/lowering-standards-for-female-marines-is-not-gender-equality.html Like this. This literally will cause people to die. This is stuff feminism, especially modern is doing.

Disquieted1
05-03-2015, 06:54 PM
I am curious what you believe, you seem to point out that hypocritical nature of the sexs. I assume the video is people getting pissed at a man defending himself against a women attacker. I've seen things like that.

But that is the thing, if people wanted equality they'd want women working hard construction jobs and break their backs...or in the work place, where guys have never and will never get offended by jokes. So, no sensitivity training would exist. But what they want is we want better treatment...And yeah, the horrible thing men do, is do everything in their power to make their girl happy. Holding doors and giving them special treatment. It like a quote of, 'a real woman can do it all by herself a real man wont let her.' Boyfriends don't think that women cant open a door...they do it because of hundreds of years of humans learning manners. So asking for equality honestly would mean treat us worse...and I really don't think anyone wants that.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2014/01/07/lowering-standards-for-female-marines-is-not-gender-equality.html Like this. This literally will cause people to die. This is stuff feminism, especially modern is doing.

Feminism isn't "let's have both genders be equal." That's egalitarianism. Feminism is "let's make life easier for women." And your link proves that.

About your courtesy remark, men don't hold doors open just for women. They do it for other men too. It's basic courtesy, not meant for a specific gender. Unfortunately, people mistake courtesy for chivalry -- and do it only for women.

Asking for equality is not asking to treat women worse. It's asking to treat men better.

AllknowingWolf
05-03-2015, 07:28 PM
Feminism isn't "let's have both genders be equal." That's egalitarianism. Feminism is "let's make life easier for women." And your link proves that.

About your courtesy remark, men don't hold doors open just for women. They do it for other men too. It's basic courtesy, not meant for a specific gender. Unfortunately, people mistake courtesy for chivalry -- and do it only for women.

Asking for equality is not asking to treat women worse. It's asking to treat men better.

Well I agree with what you said, assuming your last sentence was a typo. I guess I misunderstood you. But that's what modern feminism tries to say, the wage gap thing is. "The men make more money than women, they should make the same." But the wage gap has been proven hundred times over not to exist. And in gaming/comics, they want 'more females' in it because there's so many males, by making all male characters that already exist become female and they're very twisted when it comes to that.

ImAeternalis
05-05-2015, 03:32 PM
no, it is ok. you are young. you will understand better when you get older. these topics are mostly raging materials for youngsters since their sexual identity and relations with opposite sex is not yet settled fully. Since I understand, it is no problem for me. it is totally a showcase of your own world.

Well I apologize for being rude in that case

I'm easily offended about things I have a strong opinion about.

My response was inappropriate and rude.

Loulina
05-05-2015, 04:01 PM
Well I apologize for being rude in that case

I'm easily offended about things I have a strong opinion about.

My response was inappropriate and rude.

it is never my intention to offend anyone personally. I dont believe in big political ideals of any sort and I started in this topic saying that this is a personal world and that every hardship mostly begins or is solved at personal level. I still believe this. just give me more opportunity to rephrase my meaning next time. I felt more than a little pushed away last time and there was no way we could stay on topic after that moment. Thanks for bringing us back to where we should be :) *hugs*

I dont believe men and women are equal on most basic levels and I dont believe that they necessarily have to be made equal to make life better. two different women are not equal on many levels, how can all men and women be made equal? there is no such thing.

I watched the above video. The men who helped the women and didnt help the men know that difference between men and women because they are men & they know how hard their fist or shaking can feel on another person,especially when it is a woman. That's why they rush to help to woman and they leave the incentive to make things better to men when women is attacking.

if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.

As I said in one of my previous posts, this world always needs a certain percentage of wise and good men in each society to survive. Lack of them almost equals lack of life.

RippleApple
05-05-2015, 04:44 PM
if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.


This is called an excuse.

AllknowingWolf
05-05-2015, 05:21 PM
[QUOTE=Loulina;328422]
I watched the above video. The men who helped the women and didnt help the men know that difference between men and women because they are men & they know how hard their fist or shaking can feel on another person,especially when it is a woman. That's why they rush to help to woman and they leave the incentive to make things better to men when women is attacking.

if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.
/QUOTE]

What the helk do you even mean? Those men were NOT helping the man, they stopped him defending himself and harassed him saying he should 'walk away'..,when the man was getting attacked no one did anything, only when the women was hit is when someone interfered, No the girls size would not matter. The girl would be protected no matter the size difference. Why would you think otherwise, given some of the things you said previously, posting that video must mean you understand the 'men can't treat women bad do they certainly can trope'. I honestly do not know what stance you have...

You reply to me, seemed to cut a lot of context off my thing and basically resolve to an ad hominem/sarcastic jab. I'd like to know what I said you found incorrect...Hell same with @ImAeternalis, they said women shouldn't get more and better treatment. And you insulted him by calling him a kid. When at the same time you say fuck chivalry, and men and women can't be the same. So what the helk do you believe exactly?

SeventhArchon
05-05-2015, 05:40 PM
I dont believe men and women are equal on most basic levels and I dont believe that they necessarily have to be made equal to make life better.

Apologies in advance, I hate to be this guy...
But what are you even trying to advocate here? They shouldn't be equal because they're different? If yes, which one is superior according to you and if you're trying to say they're better at different things and will never be the same (which I believe you're trying to say) why can't they be equal (note: equal =/= same) on a level of 1 human life = 1 human life?
Of course I agree with the fact that they're both different (otherwise, I could be a woman right now). They're humans alike though even despite their differences. Just like 1 guy is better at sport and the other at IT, but they're still equal to each other as humans, why can't a man and woman be equal in the same way?
To clarify, I am against gender ideology, which claims that gender = nothing, therefore man = woman.
Man =/= woman, value of man = value of woman.

Grimfortress
05-05-2015, 10:20 PM
Looking at the video, i think there is a bit of a experimental bias in trying to judge people's social reactions. Most people won't interfere if the woman is flailing or striking at a male companion. I think if he retaliated sufficiently to stop her from striking him more, people would not have interfered. But in the video he escalates, and in the minds of most people he's raised the stakes in danger. People just do not think of a woman as dangerous to a man in unarmed matters, but vice versa do think such.

RippleApple
05-05-2015, 10:25 PM
Looking at the video, i think there is a bit of a experimental bias in trying to judge people's social reactions. Most people won't interfere if the woman is flailing or striking at a male companion. I think if he retaliated sufficiently to stop her from striking him more, people would not have interfered. But in the video he escalates, and in the minds of most people he's raised the stakes in danger. People just do not think of a woman as dangerous to a man in unarmed matters, but vice versa do think such.

He pushes her down and tries to back off while telling her to stop hitting him. Again, this is called an excuse.

Not all men are martial arts masters who can easily subdue someone without harming them. A normal person would push someone down to get them to leave him alone. She kept fighting back despite being pushed down. I mean. She was clearly the one who wanted that fight. He wanted to be left alone.

Stop white knighting and see facts, buddy.

Loulina
05-06-2015, 01:44 AM
This is called an excuse.

I dont understand what you mean.
without using any other tools or weapons,between seemingly same sized man and woman, man's bare physical power because of muscle structure is stronger. even when woman is slightly larger still man's power is good enough to create more remarkable damage.Only when woman is significantly large, a woman can be a thread to a man using her bare hands. This is how I see it.



[QUOTE=Loulina;328422]
I watched the above video. The men who helped the women and didnt help the men know that difference between men and women because they are men & they know how hard their fist or shaking can feel on another person,especially when it is a woman. That's why they rush to help to woman and they leave the incentive to make things better to men when women is attacking.

if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.
/QUOTE]

What the helk do you even mean? Those men were NOT helping the man, they stopped him defending himself and harassed him saying he should 'walk away'..,when the man was getting attacked no one did anything, only when the women was hit is when someone interfered, No the girls size would not matter. The girl would be protected no matter the size difference. Why would you think otherwise, given some of the things you said previously, posting that video must mean you understand the 'men can't treat women bad do they certainly can trope'. I honestly do not know what stance you have...

You reply to me, seemed to cut a lot of context off my thing and basically resolve to an ad hominem/sarcastic jab. I'd like to know what I said you found incorrect...Hell same with @ImAeternalis, they said women shouldn't get more and better treatment. And you insulted him by calling him a kid. When at the same time you say fuck chivalry, and men and women can't be the same. So what the helk do you believe exactly?


I think I explained already why people wait until woman is attacked. they dont truely see a danger for man at that point.I didnt say girl would be protect no matter what the sizes were.You claim that. If you want to believe that yourself, you can.

In the other video where kids were used remember that the girl's size was drastically large,she was very tall and older compared to boys. Shooters of video had taken precautions for the boys not to slap the girl already. It is all instintive people know who can damage who,if they have have chance when they hit someone and when a true damage cn be inflicted or when they should be involved to avoid damage on the weak.

Hardly any woman would get involved to seperate the man from the woman when man was attacking. it doesnt mean chivalry, it doesnt mean they dont care. Again it is knowing and calculating your chances.

Nobody really wishes to get involed in private matters of others unless they see a true damage potential to human.


I dont understand you remarks about my previous posts. I never said f. chivalry.(could it be that disq and I have the same avatar and you are mistaking us?) I like chivalry. I think your biases are colouring your reading.Because I also dont like going sarcastic. I try to avoid it to the max point and try to apologize before or after if there is achance i may sound sarcastic. Please read my posts again and quote the exact places. I can correct misunderstandings.

Any body can talk to me regardless of their age as long as they dont try to flare the topics when there is no need for that. Raging in matters that involve opposite sex is immature. This, I will claim all the time. Thus I am not feminist as well.




Man =/= woman, value of man = value of woman.


it is a good thing to think this way in general. Still it isnt necessarily logical. which man's value is equal to which woman's value and in which circumstances? perhaps you r saying in front of laws and rules and matter of juristiction..more than in social life they should be valued similarly. Yes, sure i dont think aybody will object to this.

RippleApple
05-06-2015, 03:39 AM
I dont understand what you mean.
without using any other tools or weapons,between seemingly same sized man and woman, man's bare physical power because of muscle structure is stronger. even when woman is slightly larger still man's power is good enough to create more remarkable damage.Only when woman is significantly large, a woman can be a thread to a man using her bare hands. This is how I see it.

Lemme ask you something. How many people have you punched in the face during your lifetime?

Loulina
05-06-2015, 05:14 AM
Lemme ask you something. How many people have you punched in the face during your lifetime?

None.

I dont mean to say in case somebody is stronger than another each time they may choose to punch somebody else just because they are stronger.This is what seperates humans from animals. Strong ones usually dont abuse their physical strengths and it is annoying to civilized people to see that happen usually. Or that when somebody is weaker not each time they will refrain themselves from hitting someone who is stronger. If somebody is weak and still attacking somebody stronger i will conclude:
a- that being is in danger itself. so it is at its last resort.
b- that being is not sane (because it is gonna get crushed).it ismore like self destruction in this case. animals instictively know what not to attack. only humans who lost their sanity will go attack somebody who is stronger and again this an indication of kind of a weakness which may cause some other to pity people in that situation.

I had once seen a guy who was completely out of his mind on the street and was hitting a car with his bare hands. he was really strong physically but at the same time he was so weak. it was incredibly destroying to see such a scene. I just wanted to stop him from damaging himself that way but there was no way of doing it. cops rushed in right away probably because of damage given to property but it just wasnt that.

ImAeternalis
05-06-2015, 05:34 AM
it is never my intention to offend anyone personally. I dont believe in big political ideals of any sort and I started in this topic saying that this is a personal world and that every hardship mostly begins or is solved at personal level. I still believe this. just give me more opportunity to rephrase my meaning next time. I felt more than a little pushed away last time and there was no way we could stay on topic after that moment. Thanks for bringing us back to where we should be :) *hugs*

I dont believe men and women are equal on most basic levels and I dont believe that they necessarily have to be made equal to make life better. two different women are not equal on many levels, how can all men and women be made equal? there is no such thing.

I watched the above video. The men who helped the women and didnt help the men know that difference between men and women because they are men & they know how hard their fist or shaking can feel on another person,especially when it is a woman. That's why they rush to help to woman and they leave the incentive to make things better to men when women is attacking.

if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.

As I said in one of my previous posts, this world always needs a certain percentage of wise and good men in each society to survive. Lack of them almost equals lack of life.

I get offended easily when it's something I am passionate about. I attacked Narkotekk on the music thread because of him insulting the music I write, listen to, etc. I'm just overly passionate about some stuff.

I think that men and women should be on an equal level. The physical differences says nothing of their capabilities as people.

Though I do not want a female president...

Loulina
05-06-2015, 06:23 AM
I get offended easily when it's something I am passionate about. I attacked Narkotekk on the music thread because of him insulting the music I write, listen to, etc. I'm just overly passionate about some stuff.

I think that men and women should be on an equal level. The physical differences says nothing of their capabilities as people.

Though I do not want a female president...


Being passionate about stuff is good only when you truely understand or decipher your own motivations and when you have a broad perfective on life. In other circumstances it just becomes burden and instead of increasing the joy it brings pain.
A female president even if elected or not doesnt impact your personal life to any great degree. it is just your feeling that she isnt fit to be a president perphaps. What matters is how your perceptions/feelings directly impact your daily life and how they regulate your relation with opposite sex which is pretty much important for a healthy adult life.

Disquieted1
05-06-2015, 11:40 AM
I dont believe men and women are equal on most basic levels and I dont believe that they necessarily have to be made equal to make life better. two different women are not equal on many levels, how can all men and women be made equal? there is no such thing.
On the most basic levels? Surely you don't mean that men and women should not be equal on the rights to life, expression and opportunity? Those are the most basic rights anyone can have.

Now, if we're talking about political, economic and social rights, I still disagree. While true that most of the world's political leaders are male, women have just as much influence on politics as men do. Have you heard of Malala Yousafzai? Economically, there is no wage gap. Women simply ignore the other factors that go into wages (such as education level) and just complain about the numbers. Socially, women are greater than men -- you've seen it in the video.



I watched the above video. The men who helped the women and didnt help the men know that difference between men and women because they are men & they know how hard their fist or shaking can feel on another person,especially when it is a woman. That's why they rush to help to woman and they leave the incentive to make things better to men when women is attacking.

if in the video the girl was larger than the men,I am pretty sure many men would still get involved in the fight to help the men. they all see the sizes of these two individuals.
Like a previous poster said. Men are not inherently better than women at fighting, or physical combat for that matter. IF the woman was a master in martial arts and put the man in a choke hold, would anyone help? No. And we already know that because of the video. The only time anyone probably come in to help is when the female has a knife or a gun. And that's only a possibility.



As I said in one of my previous posts, this world always needs a certain percentage of wise and good men in each society to survive. Lack of them almost equals lack of life.
This world needs a percentage of wise and good women as well.

SeventhArchon
05-06-2015, 11:51 AM
it is a good thing to think this way in general. Still it isnt necessarily logical. which man's value is equal to which woman's value and in which circumstances? perhaps you r saying in front of laws and rules and matter of juristiction..more than in social life they should be valued similarly. Yes, sure i dont think aybody will object to this.
Equal in terms of law and jurisdiction? Yes. They're 1 human entity each.
Equal in terms of social life? You'll probably want to pay more attention to their skills and personalities, so a woman will shine in one thing and a man in another. They're still equal considering all aspects of life together but it's hard to have them equal in one specific situation that doesn't involve existential or other grave matters.

Loulina
05-06-2015, 12:29 PM
On the most basic levels? Surely you don't mean that men and women should not be equal on the rights to life, expression and opportunity? Those are the most basic rights anyone can have.

Now, if we're talking about political, economic and social rights, I still disagree. While true that most of the world's political leaders are male, women have just as much influence on politics as men do. Have you heard of Malala Yousafzai? Economically, there is no wage gap. Women simply ignore the other factors that go into wages (such as education level) and just complain about the numbers. Socially, women are greater than men -- you've seen it in the video.

Like a previous poster said. Men are not inherently better than women at fighting, or physical combat for that matter. IF the woman was a master in martial arts and put the man in a choke hold, would anyone help? No. And we already know that because of the video. The only time anyone probably come in to help is when the female has a knife or a gun. And that's only a possibility.


This world needs a percentage of wise and good women as well.


I am not sure if you have read rest of my posts. Because in one of them I am saying men are inherently better than women in terms of physical power. I am also saying all people from early age on are capable of measuring and understanding who can hurt who and what can inflict a true damage.


Most basic level is physical level. This is what makes a man different from woman. "basic rights" is a broad term. in front of state, juristiction,law and rules they should be recognized similarly. We discussed that. yet not every "basic right" is written in a rule book or in a law article.

When man and woman are not equal they can not have equal rights. For example a woman has to have a maternity leave without any problems, in job interviews it shouldnt be questioned if she is thinking about babies or if she is pregnant(and this isnt even for women, this is for future of mankind), a man has to have a better wage compared to a guy with no kids (employed for the same job) if he is married and taking care of 5 kids (independent of the wife being employed or not).


in an exaggrated example, if there comes an apocalypse right now and suddenly everywhere is covered with ice, children and later women are given extra clothes, food or anything that will help them keep warm...because again they are not equal to men. Some men might think it is sad or annoying to be a men in such a case perhaps, I have no idea. But hey, it is apocalypse, nobody said it could be fun.

On the other hand, you may choose to keep the clothes and food to yourself, I am sure a large group of guys will join you to make that happen as well.

No, precentage of wise and good men is more important than presentage of wise and good women, at least for today and at this stage of human development.


Women are typically smaller than men.

The smaller a person is the higher their surface-area to volume ratio.

The higher their surface-area to volume ratio the faster they lose heat.

An extreme example being babies who can lose heat much more rapidly than an adult.

Having more fat instead of muscle doesnt change this situation much since muscles provide a better blood circulation throughout the body and good blood circulation helps conservation of body heat more stable. Thus longer endurance periods to cold



Btw, there is wage gap. I know it from first hand experince. I am sure of my education and performance level sİnce they are all pretty much on a paper but still there was remarkable wage gap. it is all because of higher circle of employers themselves all being men and favoring men during interviews and wage offers, annual reviews. He is probably thinking this way "this girl is not married doesnt need that much money". "this guy is just like me, has two kids and supporting my football team and he needs gas for his car. he has all sorts of problem that I have" he can empathize with the guy more being a guy himself. Natural.

RippleApple
05-06-2015, 01:09 PM
None.


Then what makes you think that when your heart is racing and your mind is scattered that a significant other is hitting you over and over that you could just suddenly push someone to the ground and make it look right for everyone around you? You're panicking. You've never HURT anyone before, and you don't WANT to hurt anyone.

Men are exactly the same way. Most of us have never hurt anyone and really don't want to hurt anyone. If someone in front of us is being hurt, we'll defend them, but if we're being hurt? We don't know what to do about it, especially if it's a woman, as we know for a fact if we defend ourselves in any way, police and the public will instantly be against us no matter what kind of force we use.

You perpetuate all of this. You're a problem. Psychologically, women currently have an advantage over everything but kung fu masters. Because apparently unless he can subdue her like it's in a movie and not hurt her in any way, people like you will make excuses about how he's still at fault. While men have greater physical strength, subduing people without hurting them is difficult. That greater physical strength only serves to hurt another person without being trained otherwise. Which is bad. Because we don't want to hurt anyone. We don't know what we're capable of. We certainly don't know how to stop her from hitting us if she's just going to keep following us around and hitting us with nobody caring.

Loulina
05-06-2015, 01:20 PM
Then what makes you think that when your heart is racing and your mind is scattered that a significant other is hitting you over and over that you could just suddenly push someone to the ground and make it look right for everyone around you? You're panicking. You've never HURT anyone before, and you don't WANT to hurt anyone.

Men are exactly the same way. Most of us have never hurt anyone and really don't want to hurt anyone. If someone in front of us is being hurt, we'll defend them, but if we're being hurt? We don't know what to do about it, especially if it's a woman, as we know for a fact if we defend ourselves in any way, police and the public will instantly be against us no matter what kind of force we use.

You perpetuate all of this. You're a problem. Psychologically, women currently have an advantage over everything but kung fu masters. Because apparently unless he can subdue her like it's in a movie and not hurt her in any way, people like you will make excuses about how he's still at fault. While men have greater physical strength, subduing people without hurting them is difficult. That greater physical strength only serves to hurt another person without being trained otherwise. Which is bad. Because we don't want to hurt anyone. We don't know what we're capable of. We certainly don't know how to stop her from hitting us if she's just going to keep following us around and hitting us with nobody caring.

if you cant decide what to do with your significant other hitting you how do you expect a stranger to know it when the attacking part is seemingly weaker partner?

still I will think about your point. I might be missing something. Later.

well, wait to correct one thing. I never said he is at fault. I only tried to explain why people defended the girl and not the man.

whoever starts a physical violence first is at fault. I think laws will recognize it that way also. You have always a place to turn to before applying physical force yourself. But in some cases it is too late for women. they are killed during physical violence.

nope, I tried it but I just dont get it. I just dont understand how a woman can keep on seriously hitting a man if her life is not in danger. especially to her partner..he is not hitting, he is standing there and she is going out of your mind and lets say she hits once and if he doesnt hit back it is supposed to be over.

But lets say there is such a thing. A woman hits a man, they are alone or nobody is coming to help the man..and still..cant a man run faster than a woman?
okay, man is fat. woman hits the fat man, fat man cant run faster than the agile and strong woman. agile and strong woman hits again. they are alone or nobody is coming to help the fat man. he is such a sweet man he is not gonna hit back to save himself..he will just try to talk about it but then again..where did they meet and why are they still together? didnt he know about her and why didnt leave her until it got to that point? is she threatening him not to leave her? and still hitting him? yes, possible. because this happens to many women every year. they go to cops, they ask for help and still they are killed. fat man dating agile and strong woman may die. I agree.you are right.

again no political views could save the sweet fat man, just like thousands of women getting killed during acts of domestic violence. despite there are laws against it, there are cops to protect them.They are all personal weaknesses in this personal world.

RippleApple
05-06-2015, 02:02 PM
That's the thing. It's not about how strong they are physically. It's about mental conditioning. Anyone can die if you punch them in the jaw the wrong way or push them over and their head hits the ground wrong. It doesn't take a body-builder woman and a fat man for her to commit manslaughter.

All it takes is for him to not fight back because he's not sure what to do, and she pushes him over and he lands on a nail which punctures his brain. That's it. Human life is very fragile.

It's not about being sweet. Normally nobody wants to hurt anyone else. It's not about being strong either. It's just about what you're used to. Sometimes it's easier to get used to being hurt by someone else than it is to fight back. If it were so easy to fight back, there would be no bullies in grade schools, but there are.

Society drills into your head and everyone else's that boys don't hit girls, yet there are a huge number of girls who hit boys because they're not disciplined for it when they're young. You can't say that just because someone is stronger then it's a good reason for why nobody stepped in to help them when someone was hurting them.

Sometimes people don't even have the courage to end a bad relationship. They can be hurt over and over, even badly injured, and they'll think it's their own fault because something's wrong with them and that person is just 'correcting' their behavior. That's what it's like to be abused by your significant other. It's psychological torment mixed with physical abuse.

People need to know this. Not just step in and defend women who are hitting a man for no real reason.

Loulina
05-06-2015, 02:17 PM
That's the thing. It's not about how strong they are physically. It's about mental conditioning. Anyone can die if you punch them in the jaw the wrong way or push them over and their head hits the ground wrong. It doesn't take a body-builder woman and a fat man for her to commit manslaughter.

All it takes is for him to not fight back because he's not sure what to do, and she pushes him over and he lands on a nail which punctures his brain. That's it. Human life is very fragile.

It's not about being sweet. Normally nobody wants to hurt anyone else. It's not about being strong either. It's just about what you're used to. Sometimes it's easier to get used to being hurt by someone else than it is to fight back. If it were so easy to fight back, there would be no bullies in grade schools, but there are.

Society drills into your head and everyone else's that boys don't hit girls, yet there are a huge number of girls who hit boys because they're not disciplined for it when they're young. You can't say that just because someone is stronger then it's a good reason for why nobody stepped in to help them when someone was hurting them.

Sometimes people don't even have the courage to end a bad relationship. They can be hurt over and over, even badly injured, and they'll think it's their own fault because something's wrong with them and that person is just 'correcting' their behavior. That's what it's like to be abused by your significant other. It's psychological torment mixed with physical abuse.

People need to know this. Not just step in and defend women who are hitting a man for no real reason.

do you believe they will defend women in all circumstances really? if a small sweet and fat man was being attacked by an agile and strong woman these men in the video wouldnt come to help?

RippleApple
05-06-2015, 02:20 PM
do you believe they will defend women in all circumstances really? if a small sweet and fat man was being attacked by an agile and strong woman these men in the video wouldnt come to help?

They'd ignore it until he fights back. I legitimately believe that. Male rape victims are seen as a punchline to a joke. Female rape victims are instantly believed without any proof. Why would it be any different in the case of spousal abuse?

Loulina
05-06-2015, 02:21 PM
They'd ignore it until he fights back. I legitimately believe that. Male rape victims are seen as a punchline to a joke. Female rape victims are instantly believed without any proof. Why would it be any different in the case of spousal abuse?

This is bad. I thought they would help.

but wait a minute >.<




Men are exactly the same way. Most of us have never hurt anyone and really don't want to hurt anyone. If someone in front of us is being hurt, we'll defend them,

but you said you will defend the sweet fat man why now do you say nobody will defend him?

CaptainDoomsday
05-06-2015, 02:35 PM
I feel like the biggest mistake feminism ever made was using that name. It literally means equal rights, just equal rights, for women (and in an extended state, everyone), and no diminishing of rights for anyone else.

You either support equal rights, which is objectively sensible, or you don't, and if you don't, that's sexism. It's so black and white Mr. A might break down the door at any moment.

AllknowingWolf
05-06-2015, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=AllknowingWolf;328482]
I think I explained already why people wait until woman is attacked. they dont truely see a danger for man at that point.I didnt say girl would be protect no matter what the sizes were.You claim that. If you want to believe that yourself, you can.

In the other video where kids were used remember that the girl's size was drastically large,she was very tall and older compared to boys. Shooters of video had taken precautions for the boys not to slap the girl already. It is all instintive people know who can damage who,if they have have chance when they hit someone and when a true damage cn be inflicted or when they should be involved to avoid damage on the weak.

Hardly any woman would get involved to seperate the man from the woman when man was attacking. it doesnt mean chivalry, it doesnt mean they dont care. Again it is knowing and calculating your chances.

Nobody really wishes to get involed in private matters of others unless they see a true damage potential to human.

I dont understand you remarks about my previous posts. I never said f. chivalry.(could it be that disq and I have the same avatar and you are mistaking us?) I like chivalry. I think your biases are colouring your reading.Because I also dont like going sarcastic. I try to avoid it to the max point and try to apologize before or after if there is achance i may sound sarcastic. Please read my posts again and quote the exact places. I can correct misunderstandings.

Any body can talk to me regardless of their age as long as they dont try to flare the topics when there is no need for that. Raging in matters that involve opposite sex is immature. This, I will claim all the time. Thus I am not feminist as well.

(edit: messed up the quote. >.<)

@loulina. Okay yes your correct, I'm at fault there, I mistook you for someone else. I just hate that sarcastic shit when it adds nothing of value to the conversation. I apologize for mistaking you. I just saw you do something similar to @imaet so I incorrectly connected the dots. Maybe that's why your message seems so disjointed to me. I might to re look at the forum. Once again, my mistake.

I won't go much further because I'm pretty sure we mostly agree...

Though I will disagree with the wag gap. It does not exist. It usually has to do with men working more days and longer hours and a fact they take much less vacation time off on average. And position. It is not legal to not pay something different doing the same things as someone else. And when it comes to hiring, men are less likely to sue the company for harassment. EVEN IF they are legit harassed.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/14/on-equal-pay-day-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

http://billmoyers.com/2014/04/08/debunking-the-myth-of-a-mythical-gender-pay-gap/\

There's research everywhere. It is not a real thing comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.

Also size difference still would not matter in defending, most people in general don't even stop guy vs guys or girls vs girls fighting one another even if one is clearly doing all the work. Size also doesn't equal strength. And when things like world star hip hop exist. I know for a fact people in general let beatings happen all the time. They will defend the girl in every situation unless MAYBE she's armed with a weapon or some kind. Maybe. Size however. It won't change anything.

RippleApple
05-06-2015, 04:07 PM
This is bad. I thought they would help.

but wait a minute >.<




but you said you will defend the sweet fat man why now do you say nobody will defend him?

That's exactly the contradiction that lies within most people. They would help anyone, but what they really mean is they'll help women.

In most cases, though, I'd keep out of it both ways. I have nothing to gain.

Disquieted1
05-06-2015, 08:23 PM
I am not sure if you have read rest of my posts. Because in one of them I am saying men are inherently better than women in terms of physical power. I am also saying all people from early age on are capable of measuring and understanding who can hurt who and what can inflict a true damage.
Was just picking out "basic rights" since you throw that around with multiple definitions.


Btw, there is wage gap. I know it from first hand experince. I am sure of my education and performance level sİnce they are all pretty much on a paper but still there was remarkable wage gap. it is all because of higher circle of employers themselves all being men and favoring men during interviews and wage offers, annual reviews. He is probably thinking this way "this girl is not married doesnt need that much money". "this guy is just like me, has two kids and supporting my football team and he needs gas for his car. he has all sorts of problem that I have" he can empathize with the guy more being a guy himself. Natural.
Wage gaps do not exist. There are many factors like education and productivity that influence wage. If and when all other factors are the same, wages are identical.

Did you know it's easier to get a job as a woman than as a man? Because you want women to sell goods and services. They're more appealing when it comes to marketing than men -- with the exception of a few fields like construction. But seriously, who doesn't want a beautiful female nurse or teacher or waitress?

Loulina
05-07-2015, 01:57 AM
Was just picking out "basic rights" since you throw that around with multiple definitions.

Wage gaps do not exist. There are many factors like education and productivity that influence wage. If and when all other factors are the same, wages are identical.

Did you know it's easier to get a job as a woman than as a man? Because you want women to sell goods and services. They're more appealing when it comes to marketing than men -- with the exception of a few fields like construction. But seriously, who doesn't want a beautiful female nurse or teacher or waitress?



I am sorry. Although I was pretty sure I still crtl f'd all the thread. I never talked about basic rights.it is really a broad term to bring here. I only talked about basic level inequality which is physical level.

I have really said all that I can say I about this topic. Have a nice day everyone.

SinDreadElla
05-07-2015, 03:53 AM
The internet is a big children's playground:

You have the kids who spew bad words all the time.

The bullies who will stalk and threaten you with weightless threats.

Children who cry on purpose to get the attention of other people.

Kids who steal other people's stuff and forcefully claim that it's theirs.

The youngster who thinks he's cool and broke a bone trying a stunt.

That one girl who thinks she is hotstuff and have a pack of goons following around her and will play the helpless victim for desperate measures.

And then you have the adults who sit in the sideline thinking "Tsk... children, yup I've seen it all back in my youth when I was one of them."

The difference is that you can't find the "loner child" stereotype on the internet because they will never show themselves.
And the other difference is that people in matured bodies are participating in this online playground.

Don't be one of those children. Be the adult.

BraidMyButtHair
05-07-2015, 10:01 AM
Modern feminism is a joke. We're all born different. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Get the fuck over it. You know who deserves female rights? Those females in places like Africa, Middle East, India, North Korea. Not some fat lonely girl with daddy issues hiding at home claiming ptsd from internet bullying or sexism in everything. Women in the west can otherwise fuck off with that bullshit of "I want things to change and revolve around me, but I don't want to work or fight for it. I want the men to do all the work."

Modern feminists are a joke, social justice warriors are a joke, and those fucking liberals are especially pathetic.

Edit:

The difference is that you can't find the "loner child" stereotype on the internet because they will never show themselves.


Because they're too much of babies to face the real world so they hide in the safety of their home never experiencing life outside.

AllknowingWolf
05-07-2015, 11:41 AM
The internet is a big children's playground:

You have the kids who spew bad words all the time.

The bullies who will stalk and threaten you with weightless threats.

Children who cry on purpose to get the attention of other people.

Kids who steal other people's stuff and forcefully claim that it's theirs.

The youngster who thinks he's cool and broke a bone trying a stunt.

That one girl who thinks she is hotstuff and have a pack of goons following around her and will play the helpless victim for desperate measures.

And then you have the adults who sit in the sideline thinking "Tsk... children, yup I've seen it all back in my youth when I was one of them."

The difference is that you can't find the "loner child" stereotype on the internet because they will never show themselves.
And the other difference is that people in matured bodies are participating in this online playground.

Don't be one of those children. Be the adult.

Did you post this in the right thread? :P

SinDreadElla
05-07-2015, 02:40 PM
Did you post this in the right thread? :P
I did actually. I'm pretty much stating all the sterotypes on the internet in one quick sweep. :P

The whole feminist thing existed but it wasn't until the past decade with the help of faster internets that the feminists get to state their opinions rather obnoxiously.

As everyone has already stated, the official definition of "Feminisim" has twisted and devolved far beyond it's original meaning. It used to mean the same thing as egalitarism, considering women were truly suppressed by man back in the age of war.
The word simply states the level of respect/wages/etc for women to be brought up to the same level as men, WITHOUT pulling down the standards of men.


In all seriousness (and without trying to sound racist), I do believe that this is only something that happens with some of the modern women of the West.
I was brought up in the typically strict Asian family and we simply follow the rule of:

"If you made a problem, you fix it. If someone related to you made a problem and they can't fix it, you fix it as well."
With that kind of idea being struck into our heads, the first thing I'll always think when a problem arises is "Where did I go wrong?" instead of lashing out to the nearest person or saying "Thanks <Insert Obama/MRA/Violent video games>!".
Side note: Even in Smite, I'll think the same way. I'll always blame myself for not being able to save that one tower, for someone else's death, for getting outplayed, for losing the game, etc and it helps me to grow better. That is why you will very rarely see me cry about a new god on the forum UNLESS it's something atrocious like Nemesis, Bellona or Osiris release.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've experienced from some of my white friends, their parents tend to bring up their children with the:
"It's not your fault sweetie~",
"Don't you dare hurt my little boy/girl's feelings!",
"I'm reporting you to the authority for harrassing my children!"
which eventually lead these children to think "Oh it's never my fault!" even as an adult.

So to recap, I do believe the reason for such behaviour lies in the way these people were brought up.

FallenSoldier45
05-07-2015, 02:55 PM
what white families did you grow up with?

SinDreadElla
05-07-2015, 03:35 PM
what white families did you grow up with?
The kind of ones that I mentioned. And like I clearly said, I'm not sterotyping an entire race. I'm simply stating that some families pamper their children to much.
But we're talking about the minority of the feminists here as well.

I'm not here to point a finger and be judgemental though before anyone misinterprets my posts.
I'm simply stating that you won't find this kind of thing (as in femnisim, fat shaming, etc) even in first world Asian countries and my opinion was that it has to do with the method of upbringing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that extremely strict Asian parenting is also one of the highest cause of young people suicides in the East, it has it's own problems as well.
My point is to find the balance.

SeventhArchon
05-07-2015, 05:35 PM
Everything

You confuse me. Who's the kid, which side are you standing on, what does Asian upbringing have to do with feminism and what kind of feminist is the majority? I can see you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm), but could you please elaborate?

AllknowingWolf
05-07-2015, 06:42 PM
I did actually. I'm pretty much stating all the sterotypes on the internet in one quick sweep. :P

The whole feminist thing existed but it wasn't until the past decade with the help of faster internets that the feminists get to state their opinions rather obnoxiously.

As everyone has already stated, the official definition of "Feminisim" has twisted and devolved far beyond it's original meaning. It used to mean the same thing as egalitarism, considering women were truly suppressed by man back in the age of war.
The word simply states the level of respect/wages/etc for women to be brought up to the same level as men, WITHOUT pulling down the standards of men.


In all seriousness (and without trying to sound racist), I do believe that this is only something that happens with some of the modern women of the West.
I was brought up in the typically strict Asian family and we simply follow the rule of:

With that kind of idea being struck into our heads, the first thing I'll always think when a problem arises is "Where did I go wrong?" instead of lashing out to the nearest person or saying "Thanks <Insert Obama/MRA/Violent video games>!".
Side note: Even in Smite, I'll think the same way. I'll always blame myself for not being able to save that one tower, for someone else's death, for getting outplayed, for losing the game, etc and it helps me to grow better. That is why you will very rarely see me cry about a new god on the forum UNLESS it's something atrocious like Nemesis, Bellona or Osiris release.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've experienced from some of my white friends, their parents tend to bring up their children with the:
which eventually lead these children to think "Oh it's never my fault!" even as an adult.

So to recap, I do believe the reason for such behaviour lies in the way these people were brought up.

Extremism is everywhere, not just western culture. Europe is just as bad with modern feminism last time I checked.

Also according to the opposite stereotypes, of oh you should beat the shit out of those bullies. You get A-? Your a disgrace to your family name, your saying something mean? Well their hate speech laws here so to jail you go...Are those any better?

Now I get the whole entitled generation and your right the internet has made feminism what it is. Also I mean depending on where you grow up, that is not the case what so ever. And honestly I don't think parents are to blame for the current state of our internet crybabies so I wouldn't of brought it up.

SinDreadElla
05-07-2015, 07:57 PM
You confuse me. Who's the kid, which side are you standing on, what does Asian upbringing have to do with feminism and what kind of feminist is the majority? I can see you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm), but could you please elaborate?
Sure. If you're willing to read my point of view, I'll gladly express it.

My first post simply shows the scale on where the feminist controversy stands on the internet. It's just one of the many, MANY issues on the internet and hence what I'm saying is not to get too caught up in it, hence the metaphorical term "Be the adult".

How does the (asian) upbringing relate into this?
Well let's put it into a different perspective. Instead of asking the question "Why does Asian upbringing have anything to do with this" let's switch it around and say "Why aren't there feminists movements with women ranting on the internet in Asia?".
Side note: Before anyone gets up and say there were feminist movements in Asia too, I won't deny it. But all of which I knew happened during the time of war or soon after the war and those movements clearly does not have any ulterior motive behind it.

My personal answer is simple. Culture, or more specifically, the environmental upbringing.
Just as much as the idea of "Men shouldn't hit women" is accepted worldwide, the idea that "Women should act decently in public" (and definitely not like those "STFU and listen to me" Feminists in those videos) is ingrained deeply in the Asian society.
Not only will the public sneer at you if you pull off something like that in Asia but also your family will absolutely go bonkers with "Dishonor on you, dishonor on your cow, dis..." you get the point.
And when the entire society itself opposes you, humans naturally bend to it's will.

If an asian kid makes a scene, most of the time the asian parents will deeply feel that it was their fault that their child turn out that way. And chances are they will thoroughly make sure the kid won't do it again.
This in my opinon is something which the western culture is missing because not all of these people were taught to fear the consequences of public misbehaviour. You can imagine what happens when these people grow up to be adults then.

So to bring it all back together-
Who are the kids? If you read back to my first post, why of course the feminists. (I've already made it very clear by now that people who support equality should not use the now devolved term "feminist" to describe themselves so this isn't aim at them.)
You see these kinds of girls back in school. The type who always walks around with a bunch of goons.

What is my stance on this whole thing?
I personally don't give a damn, because I highly doubt these feminists will actually change any federal laws or authority with how childish they are acting. You might be asking well why am I here then? It's because I do however care about people who are wasting their energy to actually have a logical debate with these kind of people.
All I'm here to say is that the effort will be wasted.



Now I get the whole entitled generation and your right the internet has made feminism what it is. Also I mean depending on where you grow up, that is not the case what so ever. And honestly I don't think parents are to blame for the current state of our internet crybabies so I wouldn't of brought it up.
Yes, I just realised that I may have stretched the idea a bit too far so I fixed what I was trying to say to "Environmental upbringing".

RippleApple
05-08-2015, 02:56 AM
My mom taught me that I should never hit a girl.
My dad taught me that if a girl hits me I should punch her in the face.

My mom introduced me to religion.
My dad introduced me to spiritualism.

My mom told me I shouldn't take drugs.
My dad told me that even hard drugs are fine in moderation.

My mom taught me what it was like to have a slap upside the head.
My dad taught me what it was like to have a slap upside the bum.

My mom told me to work harder in school.
My dad told me he'd be disappointed if I got anything under a B+, ever.

My mom doesn't like that I'm not a child any more.
My dad respects that I'm an adult.

I picked and chose which lessons I wanted to take to heart and shaped who I am like that. I was never forced to learn anything other than not hitting other kids. Because I got to choose what kind of person I became, I had to learn early-on that the choices I made were my responsibility, and the choices others made were their responsibility. But that's something I taught myself.

There's a lot of people out there who don't know the first thing about responsibility. I saved my dog's life when he was a year old by demanding he not be given up to the pound, and I took care of him personally for 9 more years before he died. He died in my arms, though I'll spare you the details.

All I could think was "It's my fault I didn't save him. I could've done something. I didn't work hard enough. I should've had the money for a surgery." I didn't blame the vet. I didn't blame my parents for not giving me the money for it when they didn't have the money. Life is about taking responsibility when shit hits the fan, and people like my aunt who called her mother in law a bitch because she dared to tell her children to go to bed earlier than 2 in the morning when she was watching them piss me off. It's a culture problem, because that shit is rampant. I totally agree with what's been posted by Ella.

AllknowingWolf
05-08-2015, 02:31 PM
Sure. If you're willing to read my point of view, I'll gladly express it.

My first post simply shows the scale on where the feminist controversy stands on the internet. It's just one of the many, MANY issues on the internet and hence what I'm saying is not to get too caught up in it, hence the metaphorical term "Be the adult".

How does the (asian) upbringing relate into this?
Well let's put it into a different perspective. Instead of asking the question "Why does Asian upbringing have anything to do with this" let's switch it around and say "Why aren't there feminists movements with women ranting on the internet in Asia?".
Side note: Before anyone gets up and say there were feminist movements in Asia too, I won't deny it. But all of which I knew happened during the time of war or soon after the war and those movements clearly does not have any ulterior motive behind it.

My personal answer is simple. Culture, or more specifically, the environmental upbringing.
Just as much as the idea of "Men shouldn't hit women" is accepted worldwide, the idea that "Women should act decently in public" (and definitely not like those "STFU and listen to me" Feminists in those videos) is ingrained deeply in the Asian society.
Not only will the public sneer at you if you pull off something like that in Asia but also your family will absolutely go bonkers with "Dishonor on you, dishonor on your cow, dis..." you get the point.
And when the entire society itself opposes you, humans naturally bend to it's will.

If an asian kid makes a scene, most of the time the asian parents will deeply feel that it was their fault that their child turn out that way. And chances are they will thoroughly make sure the kid won't do it again.
This in my opinon is something which the western culture is missing because not all of these people were taught to fear the consequences of public misbehaviour. You can imagine what happens when these people grow up to be adults then.

So to bring it all back together-
Who are the kids? If you read back to my first post, why of course the feminists. (I've already made it very clear by now that people who support equality should not use the now devolved term "feminist" to describe themselves so this isn't aim at them.)
You see these kinds of girls back in school. The type who always walks around with a bunch of goons.

What is my stance on this whole thing?
I personally don't give a damn, because I highly doubt these feminists will actually change any federal laws or authority with how childish they are acting. You might be asking well why am I here then? It's because I do however care about people who are wasting their energy to actually have a logical debate with these kind of people.
All I'm here to say is that the effort will be wasted.

Yes, I just realised that I may have stretched the idea a bit too far so I fixed what I was trying to say to "Environmental upbringing".

The only things I can say I disagree with, is the fact you don't think feminism can alter laws for the worse when in the gaming community they already have. In Australia, a couple games who taken off shelves in multiple stores because of the amount of push back by feminists such as gta v. They have also censored peoples opinions and have made national news tell millions of people, we are all rapists. And have made t.v shows call us all terrorists. Extremism CAN and will greatly effect and damage society. Ignoring it is highly foolish, because THEY certainly will not stop until they get they way again and again. Hell, a thing I already posted about, the military lowering their standards for tests. Sensitivity training did not exist until feminism. Sure arguing with them is pointless. But correcting just how wrong they are is not.

SinDreadElla
05-09-2015, 06:15 AM
The only things I can say I disagree with, is the fact you don't think feminism can alter laws for the worse when in the gaming community they already have. In Australia, a couple games who taken off shelves in multiple stores because of the amount of push back by feminists such as gta v. They have also censored peoples opinions and have made national news tell millions of people, we are all rapists. And have made t.v shows call us all terrorists. Extremism CAN and will greatly effect and damage society. Ignoring it is highly foolish, because THEY certainly will not stop until they get they way again and again. Hell, a thing I already posted about, the military lowering their standards for tests. Sensitivity training did not exist until feminism. Sure arguing with them is pointless. But correcting just how wrong they are is not.
You're right, I forgot about those.
If I remembered it correct some education institutions in the UK lowered the entry level for women to encourage more women to join the scientific field of research.

Sadly that didn't work because majority of the women tend NOT to be interested in those things.
Personally my opinion on this is that women don't need spoon-feeding. Women tend to personally choose jobs like Nurse over Doctors, teachers over reasearchers, designers over inventors and most of the time, the job they choose tend to get lower pay rates because they require less effort.
I can tell from my experience that women aren't as competitive as men (due to hormones I guess?) and are perfectly happy to get a less stressful job with lower payrate.

It just boggles my mind how the feminists who complain about how these jobs are hard will never even take the job, even when the entry levels are lowered for them.
As someone on the internet once said:

If you dislike female sexualisation in gaming, then you learn game design yourself and make your own game that doesn't sexualise women.

But some people just can't comprehend this logic that if you don't like it, don't play it. Or if you don't like the trend, you change it yourself.
Oh well, I guess some people only excel in "devoid of logic whining" (while doing nothing) and oddly enough, they're getting paid to do so.

ProfessionalGay
05-11-2015, 06:39 PM
Feminism; has come to a point were some people are using the term negatively.People now think it is the oppression or men although this is why people are/its becoming more popular to identify egalitarian.But furthermore feminism is for equal rights for all in its definition.

RippleApple
05-11-2015, 07:52 PM
Feminism; has come to a point were some people are using the term negatively.People now think it is the oppression or men although this is why people are/its becoming more popular to identify egalitarian.But furthermore feminism is for equal rights for all in its definition.

Simple google search:

fem·i·nism
ˈfeməˌnizəm/
noun
noun: feminism
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

e·gal·i·tar·i·an
iˌɡaləˈterēən/
adjective
adjective: egalitarian
1.
of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.

The problem with people like you is that you try to redefine what things mean so that you can win arguments using trickery and willful ignorance.

Egalitarianism is that all people are created equal and should be treated as such. Feminism says that women are treated as inferior to men and utilizing egalitarian principles try to fix this problem.

If anything, egalitarianism is an evolved form of feminism, as it looks beyond gender lines and tries to apply to all people. Feminism doesn't do that. It solely looks at gender relations. And that's it.

SeventhArchon
05-15-2015, 05:02 PM
Simple google search:

fem·i·nism
ˈfeməˌnizəm/
noun
noun: feminism
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

e·gal·i·tar·i·an
iˌɡaləˈterēən/
adjective
adjective: egalitarian
1.
of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.



By this definition both are good movements. But keep two things in mind:
1. By focusing solely on improving the rights of women to achieve equality, women would need to have an inferior position in all cases. Which is false, therefore there is a fallacy in the definition of feminism.
2. To resolve it, they're using deceit - they don't actually want the equality. At least not the ones in charge.

KFire
05-16-2015, 08:42 AM
Every time i see a feminist, i just want to punch her in the face, but then i remember that we are different and that i am meant to protect women.

I dont mind women being feminists, but they usually express that being feminism is the only morally correct way of thinking. They express like feminism is the only and real truth, even when biology and psychology say otherwise.

I think feminists make great buddies. I wont ever think as one as a woman that i would call girlfriend, lover, or wife, but they make great buddies. Why would i want a girlfriend that is a man.

Feminism movement was created for equality in rights. Brillian women. I would have fought besides them. It is inconceivable that women in US got their right to vote in 1920, less than 100 years ago. However, women distorted the movement and somehow now feminism means that women = men. I bet that i could identify a woman from a man in the vast majority of cases.

SeventhArchon
05-16-2015, 01:46 PM
Every time i see a feminist, i just want to punch her in the face, but then i remember that we are different and that i am meant to protect women.

I dont mind women being feminists, but they usually express that being feminism is the only morally correct way of thinking. They express like feminism is the only and real truth, even when biology and psychology say otherwise.

I think feminists make great buddies. I wont ever think as one as a woman that i would call girlfriend, lover, or wife, but they make great buddies. Why would i want a girlfriend that is a man. Are you thinking of this new "mental transgender" (there's a thread about it) thing? I've never seen a woman say she is just like a man for being a feminist without supporting gender ideology.

Feminism movement was created for equality in rights Brillian women.Who are probably rolling in their graves right now. I would have fought besides them. It is inconceivable that women in US got their right to vote in 1920, less than 100 years ago.
It's fine up to this point.
However, women distorted the movement and somehow now feminism means that women = men. I bet that i could identify a woman from a man in the vast majority of cases.
That's gender ideology, not feminism you're thinking of. Feminism generally claims that women > men, or equality = "women > men".
(On a side note: I've mentioned "gender ideology" several times throughout this thread. It may not be called the same in your language, however, the name of the movement and principles here is "gender" (they took an English word for it).)

KingScuba
05-16-2015, 07:08 PM
Get back on topic and stop the pissing war or I'll be closing this thread.

MiyobiKumagawa
05-16-2015, 07:45 PM
Well, things escalated quickly. On subpar I want to add my opinion down with some examples from one of my novel ideas regarding a reality where women have the oppressive power and men are only used as breeding tools.

Now with regards on feminism, it isn't bad what women try hard to do, but like Islam (yes I am using a religion as a context) there is always a darker side for a pure purpose that hijacks said ideals for a more malicious agenda. The "hardcore" feminism side wants total control over the struggle of power between genders as men see themselves to be more dominant over women. The idea that one side is better than the other can be dated back to the early days.

The idea of gender disputes didn't really surface until one woman realized where her position was at in the public view of this power hiearchy which spread towards other women. Feminism has been given a bad name due to the popular belief that women want control over mean like how people view Muslims as terrorists regardless of one's beliefs.

In my novel "Crystal of Rebirth" the setting revolves around in the district of Tokyo where the main character (a god literally) finds his mortal body in a reality where women are given esper/magical powers. Through history men were deemed a weak and inferior subspecies only to be used as breeding tools for the sustain of human existence. The main character has power above the current point of power and the majority realize this through specific events. Of course they try to subjugate him, but were quickly overpowered by the main character.

Of course he tried to create a system of equality for men with the help of a woman that reminded of him of his late wife. The realization came when the men acted aggressive towards the female population due to the years of abuse taking their toll and the factor of human natural instincts to control came into place.

For me, I find it's the fault of human nature. Not the overall nature, but part of the nature as seen in the animal kingdom to control everything in the same species regardless of the limitations set before them.

KingScuba
05-16-2015, 09:38 PM
I've deleted the posts back to the start of the flame war. I would encourage all participants to step back until tomorrow.

I enjoy this particular discussion being here. I endorse the idea of free thought and speech. I love the exchange of ideals and a MATURE debate. This is why I had this subforum made in the first place.

Do NOT attack your other players. If you wish to refute their position, bring SOLID information and a WELL THOUGHT OUT reply.

Posts that can't follow the above will be deleted immediately.

Cheers - KingScuba ^^

Disquieted1
05-16-2015, 10:24 PM
The only things I can say I disagree with, is the fact you don't think feminism can alter laws for the worse when in the gaming community they already have. In Australia, a couple games who taken off shelves in multiple stores because of the amount of push back by feminists such as gta v. They have also censored peoples opinions and have made national news tell millions of people, we are all rapists. And have made t.v shows call us all terrorists. Extremism CAN and will greatly effect and damage society. Ignoring it is highly foolish, because THEY certainly will not stop until they get they way again and again. Hell, a thing I already posted about, the military lowering their standards for tests. Sensitivity training did not exist until feminism. Sure arguing with them is pointless. But correcting just how wrong they are is not.
+1. Extremism hurts the non-extremists. Look at extreme feminism, or extreme Islam, extreme anything really. Robespierre and the guillotine.

On the topic of extreme feminism, I don't think there's a need for feminism in countries like the US, where equal rights have been granted to people of both genders. In other places where females are treated like things, that's where we need feminism -- correction, egalitarianism -- because females are treated as inferior in addition to other groups. Bitching about not having equal pay or some shit like that is extremism, because there are women without the right to speech and education, and here, in the US, stands a feminist complaining about a nonexistent wage gap.

Simple google search:

fem·i·nism
ˈfeməˌnizəm/
noun
noun: feminism
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

e·gal·i·tar·i·an
iˌɡaləˈterēən/
adjective
adjective: egalitarian
1.
of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.

The problem with people like you is that you try to redefine what things mean so that you can win arguments using trickery and willful ignorance.

Egalitarianism is that all people are created equal and should be treated as such. Feminism says that women are treated as inferior to men and utilizing egalitarian principles try to fix this problem.

If anything, egalitarianism is an evolved form of feminism, as it looks beyond gender lines and tries to apply to all people. Feminism doesn't do that. It solely looks at gender relations. And that's it.
Feminism is a category of egalitarianism. I dislike the idea of feminism because it looks at female/male relations, and only those relations. What about other things like race?

On that note, let's think for a second (about feminism in developed countries like the US). Feminists have their freedoms and are exercising them. The same freedoms that men have. So, politically, they're all set. One may argue that the lack of a female President means females are despised, but that's an instinct -- males are seen as better leaders than women. That is not to say that women are not good leaders. Economically, women get jobs easier. Show cleavage for a 25% discount (and if someone doesn't realize that this is sarcasm, I'm going to punch a baby). Socially? Women are protected and seen as pure and innocent, and men seen as rapists and murderers.

In contrast, a woman somewhere else would have none of that. Can't talk, can't work, stuck at home, treated like property.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 04:04 AM
when you are a feminist it doesnt mean you cant at the same time be for LGTB rights, support racial justice for all races, work for unicef or happily be part of egalitarianists because feminism is included in egalitarinism. Never in feminism it is said women > men. this isnt my feminism or it is never told that way in any serious resource. What suprises me is why is it always shown as if when you are an egalitarian you shouldnt support feminism at the same time, anytime ever?

they are saying the same thing but in smaller proportions and and one is focusing on a detail within it because it sees a specific problem there that requires its own tools and study.

Yes women are treated much more worse in some cultures. Just like property as you said. on the other hand, Women in US has to be feminists and there should be more feminist there or in any other developed country. they are the women that have access to education and carreer and enough resources of all sorts. THey understand their gender and their needs better. they can communicate better in special cases. They have to have knowledge of what is going on in this world in terms of inequalities. They should at least care.Even guys in these countiries should have a solid feminist understanding. If anything and everything and all that eqalitarianism fails, they can be the one who can stop thousands of hundreds of women die in congo because of violent war crimes in wars that they didnt even started. They didnt have votes in parliament, they arent in army, they have no access to power of any sort to stop the doom coming to their way. rape,murer,responsibility of raising children which doesnt have a father because they are simply war crime committers. some part of humans living in this world at this moment is damaged just because they are women. there are fathers who sell their daughters at the age of 11 to the old guys that will marry them and this a huge cultural problem impacting millions of lives. There has been hundreds and thousands, even millions of kids throughout history that has never become a kid. it is specific to girls not to boys. Do you see the problem here? thats why it requires a special title like feminism where people may choose to follow and be part of along with all other titles that may choose for themselves.

RippleApple
05-17-2015, 04:54 AM
Feminism is fine if it's part of a larger egalitarian goal as you've described it, but sometimes people lose their way and it turns into something ugly that it never should've been to begin with. It turns into justifications of evil acts, and it turns into taking women who do have power and turning them into victims for the sake of playing politics and getting votes for things feminists shouldn't support to begin with.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 05:10 AM
Every time i see a feminist, i just want to punch her in the face, but then i remember that we are different and that i am meant to protect women.

I dont mind women being feminists, but they usually express that being feminism is the only morally correct way of thinking. They express like feminism is the only and real truth, even when biology and psychology say otherwise.

I think feminists make great buddies. I wont ever think as one as a woman that i would call girlfriend, lover, or wife, but they make great buddies. Why would i want a girlfriend that is a man.

Feminism movement was created for equality in rights. Brillian women. I would have fought besides them. It is inconceivable that women in US got their right to vote in 1920, less than 100 years ago. However, women distorted the movement and somehow now feminism means that women = men. I bet that i could identify a woman from a man in the vast majority of cases.


"everytime I see a scottish person I want to punch him in the face but then I think I like whiskey."
"everytime I see a crossdresser I want to punch them in the face but then I remember they shop from my store time to time and i need to earn for my family. i am a responsible person"
"everytime I see a chinese person I want to punch him in the face but then I think somebody will see me"
"everytime I see a homeless person on the street I want to punch him the face but then I remember he is fucked up already"
" because of my religion I dont drink and everytime i see a drunk person on the street I want to punch him on the face but then I think neaah there are many people of my religion here probably someone will do it one way or another anyway."
when you dont belong into one of these groups it just feels more than ok I suppose.

it is a misunderstanding that only women can be feminists. I dont know why and how it is presented that way or why people want to see it that way.

the thing is not all women are feminists. you are only showing your minimal amount of responsibility, respect not to use physical force (it has to be there anyway for everyone) towards women after your "but" , but not towards feminists (who simply happen to be people -male or female- that has nothing to do personal with you). it is normalizing and promoting a violent intention towards keepers of a certain world view. And being a feminist is not whole of a person. it is stereotyping as well. I seriously think it should be removed.

do you see anyway of going about it getting face to face with a feminist and saying to them "Every time i see a feminist, i just want to punch her in the face, but then i remember that we are different and that i am meant to protect women." especially when he is male? just like it is an impossible and offensive situation in real life, it shouldnt have happened here. it is just you are assuming there are no feminists here.

SeventhArchon
05-17-2015, 07:26 AM
Glad to see it's civil again.

snip.
Don't reply unless you've read the whole thing.
Feminists don't necessarily have to be women. I don't think anyone actually believes feminism is composed of 100% women. Does it change anything that a few men are feminists? Not at all.
I am egalitarian. I support equality in gender, race, etc.
Feminism doesn't. Women would have to be inferiorly placed in 100%, every single aspect of life for feminism to be valid. Focusing only on increasing women's positions (even if higher than men's in some cases) will never achieve equality.
Then again, I fully support a lot of feminist actions in the third world. It's great to see women are getting rights where they are in fact inferiorly placed in just about everything. What I don't approve of are tumblr semi-liquids abusing their names to give themselves a little comfort because they hate men for not accepting their abuse with open arms. Not saying you're one.
As for the US, I wouldn't say it's the "part of the world with the highest need for feminism". There's a lot of twisted morals and sheep mentality going on in certain parts of society there, after all that's where the mainstream is created. It's also where the position of anything varies from house to house. And yes, in some the women are dominant, abusive towards men, and get away with it by reason of feminism.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 09:02 AM
Glad to see it's civil again.

Don't reply unless you've read the whole thing.
Feminists don't necessarily have to be women. I don't think anyone actually believes feminism is composed of 100% women. Does it change anything that a few men are feminists? Not at all.
I am egalitarian. I support equality in gender, race, etc.
Feminism doesn't. Women would have to be inferiorly placed in 100%, every single aspect of life for feminism to be valid. Focusing only on increasing women's positions (even if higher than men's in some cases) will never achieve equality.
Then again, I fully support a lot of feminist actions in the third world. It's great to see women are getting rights where they are in fact inferiorly placed in just about everything. What I don't approve of are tumblr semi-liquids abusing their names to give themselves a little comfort because they hate men for not accepting their abuse with open arms. Not saying you're one.
As for the US, I wouldn't say it's the "part of the world with the highest need for feminism". There's a lot of twisted morals and sheep mentality going on in certain parts of society there, after all that's where the mainstream is created. It's also where the position of anything varies from house to house. And yes, in some the women are dominant, abusive towards men, and get away with it by reason of feminism.



although i dont understand why you directed your post at me, yes, I read it. I I thought i said it already. my feminism is not women>men. I wish you had read mine also before posting. Also insisting that feminism is there to make it happen women>men wont make feminism so in the serious minds.
http://wgs.eku.edu/what-feminism-0

I am sorry i cant know where your browser is directing you when you search feminism but world is more larger than where your focus is. I think I already explained my logic why there needs to more educated people who understand feminism in develop countries. so well. making less true feminists in west exactly favours how the general population in west and east. I really dont understand why you have chosen to direct your post at me. it is all your opinion and my opinion and I have already said mine and I have no intention to change yours.

btw, it would be civil only if there were no ordering sentence at the start of your post directed to a person. I am feeling not so ok after what has happened here and still existing here. if it was really neccessary you could start by saying " I would like you to read until the end because i have some elaborations towards the end." yes, that would be civil.

also after knowing some people closely enough I just dont ask them to be civil. it sometimes looks like a bad make up on an ugly face (not saying you are one)


Does it change anything that a few men are feminists? Not at all.

it has to change what and for whom?

SeventhArchon
05-17-2015, 09:25 AM
although i dont understand why you directed your post at me, yes, I read it. I I thought i said it already. my feminism is not women>men. I wish you had read mine also before posting. Also insisting that feminism is there to make it happen women>men wont make feminism so in the serious minds.
http://wgs.eku.edu/what-feminism-0

I am sorry i cant know where your browser is directing you when you search feminism but world is more larger than where your focus is. I think I already explained my logic why there needs to more educated people who understand feminism in develop countries. so well. making less true feminists in west exactly favours how the general population in west and east. I really dont understand why you have chosen to direct your post at me. it is all your opinion and my opinion and I have already said mine and I have no intention to change yours.

btw, it would be civil only if there were no ordering sentence at the start of your post directed to a person. I am feeling not so ok after what has happened here and still existing here. if it was really neccessary you could start by saying " I would like you to read until the end because i have some elaborations towards the end." yes, that would be civil.

also after knowing some people closely enough I just dont ask them to be civil. it sometimes looks like a bad make up on an ugly face (not saying you are one)

If you expect me to be kind and formal after yesterday's shitstorm you're in the wrong place, but let's attempt to keep it "civil" or in other words, more than mindless insults. Your play with words is just a convenience for you because you want to avoid actual arguments, hence why you replied to 50% of my post. I never said you were on the bad side of feminism so you still didn't read by the way. Everything that I marked is too confusing, I'll reply if you explain that.
Oh and your link...I don't care about dictionary definitions and the like. Wikipedia told me Obama is democratic. Does that mean all of America lives 100% in democracy? (note: no derailment) Same with feminism.
(If you're feeling offended, it's by your choice. There's no directed offense here from me.)

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 09:40 AM
If you expect me to be kind and formal after yesterday's shitstorm you're in the wrong place, but let's attempt to keep it "civil" or in other words, more than mindless insults. Your play with words is just a convenience for you because you want to avoid actual arguments, hence why you replied to 50% of my post. I never said you were on the bad side of feminism so you still didn't read by the way. Everything that I marked is too confusing, I'll reply if you explain that.
Oh and your link...I don't care about dictionary definitions and the like. Wikipedia told me Obama is democratic. Does that mean all of America lives 100% in democracy? (note: no derailment) Same with feminism.
(If you're feeling offended, it's by your choice. There's no directed offense here from me.)

wasnt that you in yesterday's storm who told me about "women that are told not to shave their legs and chivalry coffin nails and stuff" ? so yeah, it was a pretty much of a storm. this is what I mean by " wont make feminism so in the serious minds."

there are people who understand what feminism is and they still want to argue about it because they dont like that "punching " idea. you can read from them if you are really interested and wont read from me because I said I am a feminist.


Oh and your link...I don't care about dictionary definitions and the like.

this ought to be against SD rules. what if now I say I dont care about any of your explanations because you keep implying I am the one with the insults? what is the logic in ignoring the meaning of something? how am i suppose to agrue with you in this case? "I am not interested in meanings , i am not interested in links (from yesterdays good memories) but DONT reply until you read my post then it is still me getting warning and infractions.first one for saying i am skipping a post and infraction for saying i dont deserve that warning just because i said i skipped a post that i had no way of relating. NOW to get out of this clear and unharmed, am i suppose to transform knowledge and life experience directly into your head if you wont read and think about them? or else i will have to skip you again? or this is just a lets irritate some feminists punch them and punish them to hell thread

KFire
05-17-2015, 09:45 AM
My second paragraph for you @vodooBae. Plz lets leave that behind.


I dont mind women being feminists, but they usually express that being feminism is the only morally correct way of thinking. They express like feminism is the only and real truth, even when biology and psychology say otherwise.


It is not someone being feminist. It is the fact that i am treated like i am going to hell for not being feminist.



Yes women are treated much more worse in some cultures. Just like property as you said. on the other hand, Women in US has to be feminists and there should be more feminist there or in any other developed country. they are the women that have access to education and carreer and enough resources of all sorts. THey understand their gender and their needs better. they can communicate better in special cases. They have to have knowledge of what is going on in this world in terms of inequalities. They should at least care.Even guys in these countiries should have a solid feminist understanding.

I am feminist in a way. I believe women should have equal rights than men. Such goal was already accomplished in the country I live, united states, so i saw no need for feminism in the US.

I agree that feminism is needed in all those countries that such right equality has not been achieved. It represents a problem even to tourists from countries like US.

If you are saying we need feminism in US because women here have access to education and can help promote right equality in all those countries, I will agree.

However, you are the first feminist i hear saying that. Most feminists that i talk say men=women wich i find absurd.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 09:48 AM
My second paragraph for you @vodooBae. Plz lets leave that behind.



It is not someone being feminist. It is the fact that i am treated like i am going to hell for not being feminist.



I am feminist in a way. I believe women should have equal rights than men. Such goal was already accomplished in the country I live, united states, so i saw no need for feminism in the US.

I agree that feminism is needed in all those countries that such right equality has not been achieved. It represents a problem even to tourists from countries like US.

If you are saying we need feminism in US because women here have access to education and can help promote right equality in all those countries, I will agree.

However, you are the first feminist i hear saying that. Most feminists that i talk say men=women wich i find absurd.


I have no way of leaving it behind unless you delete that part where you said you would like to punch people. I would do it for anybody not only for feminists. it is normalizing and promoting violence especially when it is about the minorities in a place like this thread.

I dont care about who is feminist or not. I didnt yesterday, I dont today. i couldnt care less who changes his mind or not but these people asking questions about feminism and then still going out and saying "it is not that it is this"? it is incredible. I am saying what i am and you are telling me you are not THAT. the final point is I am feminist and if even there is only one of me the description is in the link. I want tolerance about what I am because i am no harm to anyone and i wont punch anyone in the face. I will just skip your posts and speak to you like you have spoken to me.
Likewise I want no punches on my face or the idea of it promoted just because i am feminist (and something more than just that of course)..you can skip my posts also. If wont the moderation, I would gladly accept that.

SeventhArchon
05-17-2015, 10:36 AM
I'll finish my replies here. There's no more point in explaining any further or to provide filler.

wasnt that you in yesterday's storm who told me about "women that are told not to shave their legs and chivalry coffin nails and stuff" ? so yeah, it was a pretty much of a storm. this is what I mean by " wont make feminism so in the serious minds."
Fair enough.
there are people who understand what feminism is and they still want to argue about it because they dont like that "punching " idea. you can read from them if you are really interested and wont read from me because I said I am a feminist.
I don't disrespect your opinion because you're a feminist, I just disagree and point out the obvious fallacies.


this ought to be against SD rules.Trying to censor the forums and alter rules is alright then? what if now I say I dont care about any of your explanations because you keep implying I am the one with the insults?You were, that's a fact, moving on. what is the logic in ignoring the meaning of something? Not ignoring the meaning of something. Pointing out it isn't true. how am i suppose to agrue with you in this case? "I am not interested in meanings , i am not interested in links (from yesterdays good memories) but DONT reply until you read my post There's a little difference here. I asked you to read my post. I read yours too and that is how I found out it has no credibility. then it is still me getting warning and infractionsI'm not a mod, I'm not influencing the mods..first one for saying i am skipping a post and infraction for saying i dont deserve that warning just because i said i skipped a post that i had no way of relating. NOW to get out of this clear and unharmed, am i suppose to transform knowledge and life experience directly into your head if you wont read and think about them? or else i will have to skip you again? or this is just a lets irritate some feminists punch them and punish them to hell thread

No, it's not. I see why you are a feminist now, you gave me what I wanted, I don't need to take out my anger on anonymous internet people. I wouldn't punch a feminist any more than anything else anyway, it's closed, taken back, matter of past and thus now irrelevant (and no, I didn't decide that either).

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 10:42 AM
I'll finish my replies here. There's no more point in explaining any further or to provide filler.


No, it's not. I see why you are a feminist now, you gave me what I wanted, I don't need to take out my anger on anonymous internet people. I wouldn't punch a feminist any more than anything else anyway, it's closed, taken back, matter of past and thus now irrelevant (and no, I didn't decide that either).


If you will choose to work on my posts from now on please be informed it will be loss of time and effort on your side to get a response from me But of course you can always quote me and work on it however you think is ok and share your ideas with your friends but I am skipping your posts and you wont hear fromme directing answers at you. Thank you and have a nice day.

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 11:11 AM
+1. Extremism hurts the non-extremists. Look at extreme feminism, or extreme Islam, extreme anything really. Robespierre and the guillotine.

On the topic of extreme feminism, I don't think there's a need for feminism in countries like the US, where equal rights have been granted to people of both genders. In other places where females are treated like things, that's where we need feminism -- correction, egalitarianism -- because females are treated as inferior in addition to other groups. Bitching about not having equal pay or some shit like that is extremism, because there are women without the right to speech and education, and here, in the US, stands a feminist complaining about a nonexistent wage gap.

Well, yes I do agree about how the us doesn't need feminism, but as I someone said, the us is the only real place where it is praticed. And it is only praticed in places it doesn't need it and there lies the problem. The places were talking about, need far more help than just treating their women with respect. And the arguements being laid out assume your country, your supporting feminism in, can afford computers. There is no feminist I can think of talking about the sole problems of muslims and other third world countries. So I still believe their point is a bit misguided. Also my roommate pointed about:

"Bitching about not having equal pay or some shit like that is extremism" The reason this shouldn't be argued is not because they have bigger problems to worry about. It shouldn't be argued because it doesn't exist.


although i dont understand why you directed your post at me.
btw, it would be civil only if there were no ordering sentence at the start of your post directed to a person. I am feeling not so ok after what has happened here and still existing here. if it was really neccessary you could start by saying " I would like you to read until the end because i have some elaborations towards the end." yes, that would be civil.
also after knowing some people closely enough I just dont ask them to be civil. it sometimes looks like a bad make up on an ugly face (not saying you are one)

It's directed at you, because your at the opposition of the arguement. And since everyone else seems to agree and I know you dont especially after what took place. So let me ask you this.
Q: Do you believe feminism should exist in the usa, and I suppose where you live. And how exactly do you think women get oppressed?


I dont care about who is feminist or not. I didnt yesterday, I dont today. i couldnt care less who changes his mind or not but these people asking questions about feminism and then still going out and saying "it is not that it is this"? it is incredible. I am saying what i am and you are telling me you are not THAT. the final point is I am feminist and if even there is only one of me the description is in the link. I want tolerance about what I am because i am no harm to anyone and i wont punch anyone in the face. I will just skip your posts and speak to you like you have spoken to me.
Likewise I want no punches on my face or the idea of it promoted just because i am feminist (and something more than just that of course)..you can skip my posts also. If wont the moderation, I would gladly accept that.
Once again, you are taking sarcasm to the 11th. And as someone who supposedly got warned for it last time, asking someone to skip your posts doesn't seem wise. Just saying.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=Disquieted1;338280]+1. Extremism hurts the non-extremists. Look at extreme feminism, or extreme Islam, extreme anything really. Robespierre and the guillotine.

On the topic of extreme feminism, I don't think there's a need for feminism in countries like the US, where equal rights have been granted to people of both genders. In other places where females are treated like things, that's where we need feminism -- correction, egalitarianism -- because females are treated as inferior in addition to other groups. Bitching about not having equal pay or some shit like that is extremism, because there are women without the right to speech and education, and here, in the US, stands a feminist complaining about a nonexistent wage gap.QUOTE]
Well, yes I do agree about how the us doesn't need feminism, but as I someone said, the us is the only real place where it is praticed. And it is only praticed in places it doesn't need it and there lies the problem. The places were talking about, need far more help than just treating their women with respect. And the arguements being laid out assume your country, your supporting feminism in, can afford computers. There is no feminist I can think of talking about the sole problems of muslims and other third world countries. So I still believe their point is a bit misguided.

It's directed at you, because your at the opposition of the arguement. And since everyone else seems to agree and I know you dont especially after what took place. So let me ask you this.
Q: Do you believe feminism should exist in the usa, and I suppose where you live. And how exactly do you think women get oppressed?

Once again, you are taking sarcasm to the 11th. And as someone who supposedly got warned for it last time, asking someone to skip your posts doesn't seem wise. Just saying.

I am skipping your posts. Informing so that you dont waste your time just in order to get a response from me. But you can always do as you please to increase your sharing in the thread with your friends using my posts and quotes. thanks.

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 11:21 AM
Well since I literally posted, The most additional information, the sheer amount of re-posting I have to do is ridiculous. So not covering everything but here is what I already said. Here are links for a bunch of topics that feminism is generally discussed.

Wage gap: Already post links farther back.

Rape Culture and Feminist claims to rape:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2642634/Woman-34-LIED-raped-innocent-man-jailed-three-years.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-1-in-5-women-have-not-been-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-1-in-5-women-have-not-been-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

Modern feminism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

Jobs:
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/04/22/396672571/could-it-be-researchers-find-a-hiring-bias-that-favors-women

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/14/study-finds-surprisingly-that-women-are-favored-for-jobs-in-stem/

School:
Google couldn't find any selective sites for grants for men by the by.
www.grantsforwomen.org/

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 11:26 AM
[QUOTE=AllknowingWolf;338578]

I am skipping your posts. Informing so that you dont waste your time just in order to get a response from me. But you can always do as you please to increase your sharing in the thread with your friends using my posts and quotes. thanks.

...You are kidding me right? Now your doing what you did yesterday. I asked you a civil question, why can't you discuss it? Its a very simple question.

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 11:55 AM
[QUOTE=VoodooBae;338582]

...You are kidding me right? Now your doing what you did yesterday. I asked you a civil question, why can't you discuss it? Its a very simple question.

I have one question for you. how can you manage to upset the "quote" set up every time you quote?

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE=AllknowingWolf;338592]

I have one question for you. how can you manage to upset the "quote" set up every time you quote?

Do you mean like editing the quotes? Well the last one I didn't edit, so that's not every time. If you mean mess them up so I have to edit them, not every time either. And it's usually because of typos. Aside from the question of what does this have to do with feminism. (Also if you mean, use quote everytime. I didn't do that either.)

I'll ask this again, if it helps pretend someone else asked you. Q: Do you believe feminism should exist in the usa, and I suppose where you live. And how exactly do you think women get oppressed?

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 12:17 PM
[QUOTE=VoodooBae;338617]

Do you mean like editing the quotes? Well the last one I didn't edit, so that's not every time. If you mean mess them up so I have to edit them, not every time either. And it's usually because of typos. Aside from the question of what does this have to do with feminism. (Also if you mean, use quote everytime. I didn't do that either.)

I'll ask this again, if it helps pretend someone else asked you. Q: Do you believe feminism should exist in the usa, and I suppose where you live. And how exactly do you think women get oppressed?

if you hit "reply with quote" there should be less problem. always open with "reply with quote" and then add new "wrap quote" if you need to seperate passages in the orginal post.

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=AllknowingWolf;338633]

if you hit "reply with quote" there should be less problem. always open with "reply with quote" and then add new "wrap quote" if you need to seperate passages in the orginal post.

I do reply with quote. I assume you mean the one where I have multiple quotes at once. It becomes more complicated. Though I don't think it makes my discussion any different. Could you at least explain, why you keep telling me your skipping my posts. When my argument is the same. Hell your replying to the 'punching' comment and that seems to be the one your most offended by. So I'm genuinely confused by your sheer determination not to answer any question I ask. I'm being polite, I'm open for discussion. Please explain, why I and I alone am being so flippantly ignored by you.

SeventhArchon
05-17-2015, 12:28 PM
if you hit "reply with quote" there should be less problem. always open with "reply with quote" and then add new "wrap quote" if you need to seperate passages in the orginal post.

Actually, to reply with quotes you need to mark the end of the quote with "[/QUOTE]".

VoodooBae
05-17-2015, 12:33 PM
Actually, to reply with quotes you need to mark the end of the quote with ""

if you open with "reply with quote" it is done automatically. chances of upetting the set up decreases.

AllknowingWolf
05-17-2015, 01:14 PM
Well, things escalated quickly. On subpar I want to add my opinion down with some examples from one of my novel ideas regarding a reality where women have the oppressive power and men are only used as breeding tools.

Now with regards on feminism, it isn't bad what women try hard to do, but like Islam (yes I am using a religion as a context) there is always a darker side for a pure purpose that hijacks said ideals for a more malicious agenda. The "hardcore" feminism side wants total control over the struggle of power between genders as men see themselves to be more dominant over women. The idea that one side is better than the other can be dated back to the early days.

The idea of gender disputes didn't really surface until one woman realized where her position was at in the public view of this power hiearchy which spread towards other women. Feminism has been given a bad name due to the popular belief that women want control over mean like how people view Muslims as terrorists regardless of one's beliefs.

In my novel "Crystal of Rebirth" the setting revolves around in the district of Tokyo where the main character (a god literally) finds his mortal body in a reality where women are given esper/magical powers. Through history men were deemed a weak and inferior subspecies only to be used as breeding tools for the sustain of human existence. The main character has power above the current point of power and the majority realize this through specific events. Of course they try to subjugate him, but were quickly overpowered by the main character.

Of course he tried to create a system of equality for men with the help of a woman that reminded of him of his late wife. The realization came when the men acted aggressive towards the female population due to the years of abuse taking their toll and the factor of human natural instincts to control came into place.

For me, I find it's the fault of human nature. Not the overall nature, but part of the nature as seen in the animal kingdom to control everything in the same species regardless of the limitations set before them.

I assume no one minds slight off topic things, but sounds like a nice novel.

But to simply what I already replied to you yesterday. The problem with the movement in the usa, no matter how nice and 'heart is in the right places' the individuals are, the common things discussed such as wage gap. Is spreading misinformation and nothing more. And its helping no one. If your presenting lies and misinformation to the public. No matter how nice you are about it. It's wrong.

Also mentioning Islam, that's another thing. Where are all the nice ones standing against the hateful ones? They're not in the media, or popular nor well known. And they would be if they existed. That's the problem trying to minoritize hate groups, and say there the 'extreme'. Where is it's opposition that stands against what they do but still fight what they claim to support?

Like here's a good example, using religion. Christianity. The hate group, who has said they don't even like Christians but get used a lot when arguments arise. West Baptist Church. There are christians interviewing them saying 'your messing up are message'. There have been churches that publicly condemn what they are doing. (I'd provide link but I feel it be going too far off topic) But you get my general point I hope.

Dmantakae
05-17-2015, 07:11 PM
Closing this thread, it'll be open again tomorrow.

Think you all need some time to cool your heads.

Edit: Alright guys, thread is open again. Please respect one another, people are entitled to their opinions, and personal attacks are prohibited.

SeventhArchon
05-19-2015, 03:24 AM
Closing this thread, it'll be open again tomorrow.

Think you all need some time to cool your heads.

Edit: Alright guys, thread is open again. Please respect one another, people are entitled to their opinions, and personal attacks are prohibited.

I'll just let you know I appreciate the attention you're giving this thread.

RippleApple
05-19-2015, 03:50 AM
I'll just let you know I appreciate the attention you're giving this thread.

Ditto. Sorry for earlier guys.

VoodooBae
05-19-2015, 04:55 AM
I am sorry I cant get into low level discussion about indivudual rape issiues that i said at least ten times before that they are subject to individual court decisions and perhaps certain therapy rooms while mass war crime numbers are available for many countries like congo where women who are not killed during the mass crime were sick due to HIV or they had to take care of children that were born as the result of the crime alone where there was famine and even lack of clean water .
For those of you who are interested

ILRFis an organisation for labour rights. it is not a feminist website.

http://www.laborrights.org/issues/women%E2%80%99s-rights

again not a feminist page

https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking

%80 of them are female as said.since it is mostly about sex trafficking gays are also in rest of %20 i would assume.
now, psychology of the topic.
I dont expect any individual here feel like a hero and feel too weak to handle these alone.this is an impossible task in both ways. I am also not interest in handling these alone just as much as i wouldnt feel like getting into low level discussion like individual rape cases. on the other hand feeling too weak to get over these is main reason many people prefer to use strong psychological defense mechanisms against feminism to the point of denying their grounds. You cant get over these alone. It requires the global help of these that have some power in politics,media and material benefits. even when somewhere there is a weak link in globe in human trafficking that is ok with punching some humans for their own pleasure, it wont work and there is nothing i can personally do about it other than being aware of the facts as they are.

VoodooBae
05-19-2015, 06:03 AM
Ditto. Sorry for earlier guys.

More than language, intention is what seperates people. if you have forgotten to put a comma, there are not only guys here. if a comma was unintended there is no need to be sorry for all the earlier guys. some of them could have done great even if not all have participated here. this is my belief.

now the psychology of the topic.

Whatever we have been thaught through formal or informal education seems correct to us.it requires great deal of additonal work to change that earlier education. Our daily conversations assumes that this is a world of men and it is true and this also one of the grounds that feminism is standing. If you are looking at the world and enjoying the way it is now, you wont have any intentions to make it better and it is natural.

RippleApple
05-19-2015, 04:39 PM
Or we would prefer a world that isn't "exactly the same, just opposite."

If you go along with feminism past the point that equality is reached, it turns into a world where it's okay for a guy to be raped by a woman, to receive lower wages than women, to have the right to vote stripped away, and effectively turned into the cattle women had been for over a hundred generations.

If the goal is "The elevation of women so that women may be equal to men", then there creates a split between feminist groups, which is what we've been remarking on this entire time.

That split is this:
The elevation of women.
The equality of women to men.

The former is what we're protesting against, because we're already seeing the justification of female on male rape, and indeed a lot of other similar ideologies justifying their actions by remarking on the historical reparations white males should pay to those who their ancestors damaged in one way or another. It seeks to drive other human beings into what is effectively slavery under the guise of morality.

For the latter, we use that and egalitarianism interchangeably because that's effectively what it is. As soon as it's less about elevating women and more about equalizing women and men whatever way possible, then it no longer becomes about domination. It's about equality. And that's what men want. We agree that the actions of our ancestors were foolish and evil. That doesn't mean we want to become slaves to people who claim to have the moral high ground in their false victimhood. That isn't a defense mechanism. That's exactly what feminists did. The side that promotes equality, rather than domination... they're the ones closest to the heroes that brought us to this day.

AllknowingWolf
05-19-2015, 05:07 PM
I literally have stopped caring about this topic. There is no actual discussion that will be happening so there is no point and the thread has been closed twice...when its clear what started both problems, breaking the rules of the forums twice.

I have a feeling others could debunk these myths better. Gender wage gap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30lWAiD_3A This is by feminists...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow This is actual explantion, not a paragraph or two of speculation. With no charts or evidence backing up their articles. (better video/more precise)

Actually here's another 'problem' women suffer from. Catcalling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwdoXbxFwuY A man 'trying out catcalling'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NUk5AFImw Feminist perspective.

Now, yes human trafficking is a huge problem. And its sick and disgusting and yes predominantly most slave trades are young children. my question is who disagrees with this. I'll answer no one. And it doesn't have much to do with feminism as I've never seen it being brought up by feminist. I'd argue it's a completely different issue. It doesn't have to do with sexism what so ever either.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 03:30 AM
Yes, if someone wants to be underpaid comparatively it is their own choice.nothing to do with where their society put them since their birth. didnt we hear at least just one person here who says they dont want a female president? and hardly anyone said "what a strange thought bro.what is that to do with gender because i am egalitarian" ok tell everybody,where you dont want to see a woman? as your boss? as your coach? where? and most importantof all where do you want to see them? Also reading just one paragraph in a book is good enough for explanations for the whole world and nullifies all satistics anywhere and everywhere. Also their unpaid labour begins at housework when they do tons of other work after they come home from work.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 03:48 AM
Or we would prefer a world that isn't "exactly the same, just opposite."

If you go along with feminism past the point that equality is reached, it turns into a world where it's okay for a guy to be raped by a woman, to receive lower wages than women, to have the right to vote stripped away, and effectively turned into the cattle women had been for over a hundred generations.

If the goal is "The elevation of women so that women may be equal to men", then there creates a split between feminist groups, which is what we've been remarking on this entire time.

That split is this:
The elevation of women.
The equality of women to men.

The former is what we're protesting against, because we're already seeing the justification of female on male rape, and indeed a lot of other similar ideologies justifying their actions by remarking on the historical reparations white males should pay to those who their ancestors damaged in one way or another. It seeks to drive other human beings into what is effectively slavery under the guise of morality.

For the latter, we use that and egalitarianism interchangeably because that's effectively what it is. As soon as it's less about elevating women and more about equalizing women and men whatever way possible, then it no longer becomes about domination. It's about equality. And that's what men want. We agree that the actions of our ancestors were foolish and evil. That doesn't mean we want to become slaves to people who claim to have the moral high ground in their false victimhood. That isn't a defense mechanism. That's exactly what feminists did. The side that promotes equality, rather than domination... they're the ones closest to the heroes that brought us to this day.


12th times..when you are raped by man or woman you take your individual case to the court, hardly any court will laugh at you or ignore you when they have the evidence. when 30 million sex slaves %80 of which are female moving across the borders, this is a universe-wide mockery of humanity. Not that I dont care abut the man and kid in that numbers if you dont understand power abuse, you dont understand feminism.

RippleApple
05-20-2015, 05:20 AM
12th times..when you are raped by man or woman you take your individual case to the court, hardly any court will laugh at you or ignore you when they have the evidence. when 30 million sex slaves %80 of which are female moving across the borders, this is a universe-wide mockery of humanity. Not that I dont care abut the man and kid in that numbers if you dont understand power abuse, you dont understand feminism.

...No, they do refuse to arrest the perpetrator a lot, and if there's an abusive wife and hard-working husband a lot of the time the wife will be given the children during a divorce anyway. The legal system here is very biased in favor of the female gender regardless of the individual facts of the case. There's a lot of activist judges who think the man was the one who was the oppressor and the woman was the one who was the oppressed even if the facts say otherwise. They don't care about facts. They care about ideology.

At that, many men have an abundance of pride and simply won't report when they're taken advantage of like that. Because society will tell them to just suck it up, and make jokes about their plight in sitcoms on television.

Quite frankly, I want you to read my whole post, and respond to the individual points I made in that post before, though. All you're doing is coming back with the same "You just don't GET IT, man." It's a very dismissive attitude to real problems that people face every day. You can't just say "Well that's bad and all BUT LOOK HOW HORRIBLE THIS OVER HERE IS IT MAKES THAT LOOK LIKE NOTHING".

The point of debate is to grow as a reasonable and moral being. Your points are being heard. But mine aren't. You're just repeating yourself. Which doesn't help your case. It just makes you look like you're not interested in talking TO us so much as you're interested in talking AT us.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 06:09 AM
...No, they do refuse to arrest the perpetrator a lot, and if there's an abusive wife and hard-working husband a lot of the time the wife will be given the children during a divorce anyway. The legal system here is very biased in favor of the female gender regardless of the individual facts of the case. There's a lot of activist judges who think the man was the one who was the oppressor and the woman was the one who was the oppressed even if the facts say otherwise. They don't care about facts. They care about ideology.

At that, many men have an abundance of pride and simply won't report when they're taken advantage of like that. Because society will tell them to just suck it up, and make jokes about their plight in sitcoms on television.

Quite frankly, I want you to read my whole post, and respond to the individual points I made in that post before, though. All you're doing is coming back with the same "You just don't GET IT, man." It's a very dismissive attitude to real problems that people face every day. You can't just say "Well that's bad and all BUT LOOK HOW HORRIBLE THIS OVER HERE IS IT MAKES THAT LOOK LIKE NOTHING".

The point of debate is to grow as a reasonable and moral being. Your points are being heard. But mine aren't. You're just repeating yourself. Which doesn't help your case. It just makes you look like you're not interested in talking TO us so much as you're interested in talking AT us.



activist judges? what is that? is there an individual case that you know and are talking about? I dont know, really. they are bound with rules. they cant give judgement against evidence or they are expelled. also i assume you can always take the case to upper court and judges are different there. isnt that same there? But on the other hand even death sentences can be given by mistake. individual cases probably noone deliberately intended them to be that way. 13th time.

if i were man and i was raped i would tell it to police and to court. it isnt me who should be ashamed in that case.

in what way you are not heard? and by whom? it isnt only me here even if i may be missing some essntial parts of posts or what not. I cant correct or cover all topic at all lengths. I am a human. I am perhaps repeating myself because you ask me the same thing over and again that i already explained according to my own understanding?

there are many people asking special attention here. I dont understand the reason. I am on the side of just explaining my view, leaving it at that. I am not expecting any special attention from individuals.just to the contrary it would make me more happy if you just ignore my posts if you can not relate to them. I wont force anyone to relate to them.

RippleApple
05-20-2015, 06:22 AM
activist judges? what is that? is there an individual case that you know and are talking about? I dont know, really. they are bound with rules. they cant give judgement against evidence or they are expelled. also i assume you can always take the case to upper court and judges are different there. isnt that same there? But on the other hand even death sentences can be given by mistake. individual cases probably noone deliberately intended them to be that way. 13th time.

if i were man and i was raped i would tell it to police and to court. it isnt me who should be ashamed in that case.

in what way you are not heard? and by whom? it isnt only me here even if i may be missing some essntial parts of posts or what not. I cant correct or cover all topic at all lengths. I am a human. I am perhaps repeating myself because you ask me the same thing over and again that i already explained according to my own understanding?

there are many people asking special attention here. I dont understand the reason. I am on the side of just explaining my view, leaving it at that. I am not expecting any special attention from individuals.just to the contrary it would make me more happy if you just ignore my posts if you can not relate to them. I wont force anyone to relate to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_activism

I'll just put this here. I think it'll explain a lot of things you don't understand about how the world works.

Sometimes, a judge will make a decision based on their own prejudice rather than on existing law. They don't always base their decisions on facts and evidence. Sometimes they want to make a name for themselves so they make controversial decisions. Sometimes they want to make a difference and correct a perceived injustice. Not all judges are good people.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 06:26 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_activism

I'll just put this here. I think it'll explain a lot of things you don't understand about how the world works.

oh i thought feminist activists. of course there is always chance judges can use personal bias of all sorts.
you should always have an upper court to take the case. but i said this already. and if the upper court inspectors notices such justified claims coming from a certain judge's court they are probably expelled.

kis in my country when they are little usually given to mother during a divorce (considering chil's needs) unless it is proved mother has certain problems (lets hope fathers will care enough for their kid to collect and present evidence if there is such a case) after certain age children's consent is asked about with whom they want to live. if father and mother has no special problems (like violence or mental issues) they are given righst to see their kids and these rights are protected by court.

RippleApple
05-20-2015, 12:49 PM
oh i thought feminist activists. of course there is always chance judges can use personal bias of all sorts.
you should always have an upper court to take the case. but i said this already. and if the upper court inspectors notices such justified claims coming from a certain judge's court they are probably expelled.

Not really. Usually it's a slap on the wrist. Lower courts also have elections for their judges in a lot of places, I think, so activists get in all the time. At least here.


kis in my country when they are little usually given to mother during a divorce (considering chil's needs) unless it is proved mother has certain problems (lets hope fathers will care enough for their kid to collect and present evidence if there is such a case) after certain age children's consent is asked about with whom they want to live. if father and mother has no special problems (like violence or mental issues) they are given righst to see their kids and these rights are protected by court.

Yeah... that sounds nice. Theoretically it's similar here, but the rule of law sometimes plays a back seat to judges who call themselves feminists who are really just sexists in disguise and don't follow your definition of a feminist at all.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 01:30 PM
Not really. Usually it's a slap on the wrist. Lower courts also have elections for their judges in a lot of places, I think, so activists get in all the time. At least here.



Yeah... that sounds nice. Theoretically it's similar here, but the rule of law sometimes plays a back seat to judges who call themselves feminists who are really just sexists in disguise and don't follow your definition of a feminist at all.


i just looked at your link and looked back at your arguement and it just seemed like an attempt of a proposed weakness in injuridial system to make it seem all like sexist feminists' fault to me but i may be mistaken. Because this is a pretty much of a claim.

RippleApple
05-20-2015, 03:00 PM
i just looked at your link and looked back at your arguement and it just seemed like an attempt of a proposed weakness in injuridial system to make it seem all like sexist feminists' fault to me but i may be mistaken. Because this is a pretty much of a claim.

There's lots of little things that people stand for, besides feminism, that judges express bias through. Drugs, art, race relations, gender relations, constitutionality, you name it and there's a judge that shows bias. It's pretty rare that judges actually get punished beyond a reprimand.

What I've mainly been talking about is the reason why feminism is seen as a taboo term in some circles. People associate the huge numbers of judges, media starlets, newscasters, journalists and politicians who simply use the idea of feminism to get votes, views, money and the public's approval. Because they have no intention of living up to what feminism actually means historically, they've corrupted it here into an ugly thing that it was never supposed to be. Rather than it being about equality, a lot of people treat it more like an excuse to beat up on another person who's different than them.

Ultimately, feminism is intertwined with politics, and politics has the habit of corrupting good ideas by dumbing down the message until it makes no sense any more. This is why so many people are angry at feminists. Their experience has been with a corrupted form of feminism that isn't really feminism. They use the term "egalitarianism" interchangeably with the old form of feminism that you believe in.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 03:22 PM
There's lots of little things that people stand for, besides feminism, that judges express bias through. Drugs, art, race relations, gender relations, constitutionality, you name it and there's a judge that shows bias. It's pretty rare that judges actually get punished beyond a reprimand.

What I've mainly been talking about is the reason why feminism is seen as a taboo term in some circles. People associate the huge numbers of judges, media starlets, newscasters, journalists and politicians who simply use the idea of feminism to get votes, views, money and the public's approval. Because they have no intention of living up to what feminism actually means historically, they've corrupted it here into an ugly thing that it was never supposed to be. Rather than it being about equality, a lot of people treat it more like an excuse to beat up on another person who's different than them.

Ultimately, feminism is intertwined with politics, and politics has the habit of corrupting good ideas by dumbing down the message until it makes no sense any more. This is why so many people are angry at feminists. Their experience has been with a corrupted form of feminism that isn't really feminism. They use the term "egalitarianism" interchangeably with the old form of feminism that you believe in.

Power abuse is bad whoever does it and power is a very tricky issue. I have no way of knowing if world didnt evolve this way and if women were owners of political,physical, economic power if it could be any different, or if they would choose to treat men any more equally. I admit that, i dont know.

I think a good feminist can be recognized by looking at what they are trying to do for people in less fortunate countries. Because emergency situations requires attention first. If they are really caring they should be starting from those places. sitting in US and talking about individual rape issues and who lied to who about their rape is very childish when you look at he sufferings going on in this world
http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/about-child-marriage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prostitution_in_Thailand
I am not even talking about africa and women there. that place is a huge mess especially when there is a war.
when people understand these problems and want to help them perhaps they do not see that they will be helping their own lives in return or to the lives of their kids and their kids. Just imagine, perhaps there is a perfect future girl for your cute future son who is born in thailand now and she will never grow up to be that girl because she doesnt have education and she is raised as slave to some silly life. eventually.. they never meet she dies to HIV and your son meets another woman marries her and never is fully happy and they are not thinking about having kids..because he was meant to be with that other girl. *sigh* anyway. i hope things get better... for your son.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 03:33 PM
So I've come across this Mark Ruffalo quote on women that aren't feminists and it's pretty interesting (and also pretty recent).

"
“My response to the “I am not a feminist” internet phenomenon….

First of all, it’s clear you don’t know what feminism is. But I’m not going to explain it to you. You can google it. To quote an old friend, “I’m not the feminist babysitter.”

But here is what I think you should know.

You’re insulting every woman who was forcibly restrained in a jail cell with a feeding tube down her throat for your right to vote, less than 100 years ago.

You’re degrading every woman who has accessed a rape crisis center, which wouldn’t exist without the feminist movement.

You’re undermining every woman who fought to make marital rape a crime (it was legal until 1993).

You’re spitting on the legacy of every woman who fought for women to be allowed to own property (1848). For the abolition of slavery and the rise of the labor union. For the right to divorce. For women to be allowed to have access to birth control (Comstock laws). For middle and upper class women to be allowed to work outside the home (poor women have always worked outside the home). To make domestic violence a crime in the US (It is very much legal in many parts of the world). To make workplace sexual harassment a crime.

In short, you know not what you speak of. You reap the rewards of these women’s sacrifices every day of your life. When you grin with your cutsey sign about how you’re not a feminist, you ignorantly spit on the sacred struggle of the past 200 years. You bite the hand that has fed you freedom, safety, and a voice.

In short, kiss my ass, you ignorant little jerks.”
"
After reading it I think it's extremely biased and ignorant. Knowing myself, back in the day this is related to I'd greatly support feminist movements and actions. I'd greatly support rights for all humans, male or female. But now, the only "ignorant little jerk" I can see is the one who bashes others for abandoning a movement that is fighting against its roots - the ones I would have supported, the movement which is now an irony and a fallacy in definition.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 04:03 PM
power is a tricky thing. people are likely to say i am not feminist not to get excluded and be pushed away from the majority as well. especially when there is strong opposition from people that they need to be close. For example in gaming it is a fashion to talk like boys, pick gender neutral names, hide their identity for most girls. a need to be part of the group that has the strong hand.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 04:08 PM
power is a tricky thing. people are likely to say i am not feminist not to get excluded and be pushed away from the majority as well. especially when there is strong opposition from people that they need to be close. For example in gaming it is a fashion to talk like boys for most girls. a need to be part of the group that has the strong hand.

I'd like to see your thoughts on the MR quote. Just to see what it looks like from the other side.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 04:09 PM
I'd like to see your thoughts on the MR quote. Just to see what it looks like from the other side.

sounds angry.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 04:11 PM
sounds angry.
Sure does :D
I mean the content part. Do you actually agree that women nowadays that aren't feminists are as much of a disgrace as he says?

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 04:19 PM
Sure does :D
I mean the content part. Do you actually agree that women nowadays that aren't feminists are as much of a disgrace as he says?


I said before, I couldnt care less who personally is feminist or not. But when I say " i believe in this" and the other person comes and says "no you dont believe in that, you are faking or something" it is gonna be an issue for a while.

Whatever good you do for balance and betterment of all is what you do for yourself and for your future generations. He is probably worried in this sense.underneath he is still caring about people even if he sounds angry.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 04:26 PM
I said before, I couldnt care less who personally is feminist or not. But when I say " i believe in this" and the other person comes and says "no you dont believe in that, you are faking or something" it is gonna be an issue for a while.

Whatever good you do for balance and betterment of all is what you do for yourself and for your future generations. He is probably worried in this sense.underneath he is still caring about people even if he sounds angry.

The only question here is whether the betterment will be achieved this way or if it will be the opposite - the main point of disagreement even between us. Denying someone else's beliefs is irrational but I haven't seen it happen in this thread yet - I understand you're probably pointing at me. I don't deny that you want feminism and equality, I just say that the two conflict and that the feminists in charge are liars.
As for MR it's pretty much the very same thing. I do think he cares (in fact, he cares enough to get so passionate about it) - the only thing I disagree with is the direction of his anger and the irony in the meaning.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 04:28 PM
The only question here is whether the betterment will be achieved this way or if it will be the opposite - the main point of disagreement even between us. Denying someone else's beliefs is irrational but I haven't seen it happen in this thread yet - I understand you're probably pointing at me. I don't deny that you want feminism and equality, I just say that the two conflict and that the feminists in charge are liars.
As for MR it's pretty much the very same thing. I do think he cares (in fact, he cares enough to get so passionate about it) - the only thing I disagree with is the direction of his anger and the irony in the meaning.

doesnt it sound like a betterment to you what he listed?

half of thread is deleted and i was frequently asked to defend things that i have no relation with or my meaning was denied every now and then. so lets not do the same mistake. I dont care who is feminist. I am not responsible for anbody's words,choices.feminists are not an ant colony. all are different individuals with different backgrounds and way of lifes and other interests.also feminists dont come from outer space. they can get angry like everybody else. I wouldnt go out and say people why arent you feminists? why are you betraying the ideal? I will just say how i see things from my point of view. nobody can become something else because of me. cant be my aim. everybody choses, learns and believes whatever they desire or think is ok.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 04:38 PM
doesnt it sound like a betterment to you what he listed?

half of thread is deleted and i was frequently asked to defend things that i have no relation with or my meaning was denied every now and then.

I don't believe there is any actual "betterment" in his quote whichever way you're leaning (feminist or not), it's a rant on women that aren't. If you mean his feminist views, then I've already told you what I think of them and how much of it I support.
The majority of deleted posts were deleted for reasons of insult - and I (speaking for myself) haven't tried to deny the fact that you believe in something, always only the fact that what you believe is true or the fact that certain things combine.

VoodooBae
05-20-2015, 04:54 PM
I don't believe there is any actual "betterment" in his quote whichever way you're leaning (feminist or not), it's a rant on women that aren't. If you mean his feminist views, then I've already told you what I think of them and how much of it I support.
The majority of deleted posts were deleted for reasons of insult - and I (speaking for myself) haven't tried to deny the fact that you believe in something, always only the fact that what you believe is true or the fact that certain things combine.

in my country we have those "houses" as well. many women dont have economic freedom. they get married. their husband beat them and throw them on the street. or she just escapes. it is a shame in this culture to return to your father's house. or some father houses simply will try to persuade you to return to your husband. in this situation government gives a shelter to the woman. a betterment? you are right hardly it is. but it probably means a lot to that woman in that situation.
a betterment would be to create a culture that can give all women economic freedom. if men are so prone to abuse their physical power,i mean. if they were careful enough to use their physical power in a balanced way there wouldnt be any need for any of these talks. not saying all men do. but still no government would run such a programme for nothing at all and feed taxes into it. again those men who abuse their power hurt themselves through the taxes. betterment of one, is for betterment of all and for the coming generations.

also if you dont see women getting right to vote as betterment well..what can i say. tell my regards to your mom, sisters,grandma and future wife.

SeventhArchon
05-20-2015, 05:10 PM
in my country we have those "houses" as well. many women dont have economic freedom. they get married. their husband beat them and throw them on the street. or she just escapes. it is a shame in this culture to return to your father's house. or some father houses simply will try to persuade you to return to your husband. in this situation government gives a shelter to the woman. a betterment? you are right hardly it is. but it probably means a lot to that woman in that situation.
a betterment would be to create a culture that can give all women economic freedom. if men are so prone to abuse their physical power,i mean. if they were careful enough to use their physical power in a balanced way there wouldnt be any need for any of these talks. not saying all men do. but still no government would run such a programme for nothing at all and feed taxes into it. again those men who abuse their power hurt themselves through the taxes. betterment of one, is for betterment of all and for the coming generations.

What is this country of yours? I don't really believe there is any shame in gender or any lack of economic freedom based on gender here. I've already stated several times that where it is it shouldn't be.
Government being men and government being women would bring advantages and evils both ways, just different ones. It's much more a matter of the specific person and circumstances than gender.
The only thing I'd like to see feminists like you do is turn the other way and look at disadvantages of men, many of which have surfaced recently, and fix them with the same dedication you helped the women.
We aren't the long dead and buried oppressors the feminists hate so much and generally, we don't want to be.

RippleApple
05-20-2015, 09:15 PM
Denmark... no?

VoodooBae
05-21-2015, 02:49 AM
Some men think having , educated, intelligent, courageous,respected women that are not oppressed in society is gonna be swell and I am for their rights as well.They would have no problem if they see a woman as president or somewhere above in political hierarchy. They think if men are good enough for there so women are as in denmark. Probably they also respect them well enough to recognize that it was a shame that once there was a period that they didnt even have a right to vote. (no matter what your idea of politics and power in general is, to have individual rights to participate in them and to be given opportunity to change them if you dont like is something else. having no say in a system that you dont like is agrave situation. on the other hand ruling a system and saying that it sucks is a sign of lack of interest or sanity.) They are so sane natured, they dont blame themselves personally or they dont have issues with all men, they know what is the right thing to do, they can tell fact from fiction, they dont hurt themselves on the way individually for things that they can not correct right away, they know it requires much more than what they personally can do but they know just being aware of the situation and not denying is something at least. I am for their rights as well.

on the other hand, i cant protect the rights of those who dont believe protecting the rights of others is protecting your own rights in the long run. it is gonna be a futile attempt.I am not gay, I dont have gay friends. probably all my life i will have little to no relations with gays but if i deny them their rights to legal marriage contract, I begin to shake the legal basis of marriage contract for all. It is expected that i may come to deny marriage benefits for any particular cases whenever i feel like it.

when you dont have a problem for yourself or in your environmentit doesnt make that problem disappears for everybody else as well.this is also one of the grounds such movements are standing. you dont have that problem, you dont feel their impacts doesnt mean they dont exist. Just ask your mom how she would feel if she had no rights to vote, ask how she would feel if all women still didnt have it. ask how it would make her feel like if she was denied education and asked to marry some guy at the age of 13 get into housework and raise children after that all her life. this is happening in the world.

I am pretty much comfortable. I have everything I need. A caring boyfriend, a brother and a father that always took me as equal even when i was a kid and respected me with all my decisions.Since my childhood my most nourshing discussions were with my dad because he always had time and care for me to explain to me everything i asked. when they were young he cooked for us, he did ironing and housework whenever needed because my mom was also working. he was more than willing to relieve the burden on my mom and it always showed. I know they are wonderful and i am grateful for their presense, I wouldnt want these men in my life to get hurt not even for the whole riches in the world but still i see there is a problem somewhere for many women.actually when you grow up in a correct environment it gets easier to spot the wrongs. when you are living the wrong it feels normal to you whenever you see it.also not because i m not directly afftected by them now doesnt mean somewhere someday it wont hurt me or these men i love in an indirect way.

AllknowingWolf
05-25-2015, 08:14 PM
Yes, if someone wants to be underpaid comparatively it is their own choice.nothing to do with where their society put them since their birth. didnt we hear at least just one person here who says they dont want a female president? and hardly anyone said "what a strange thought bro.what is that to do with gender because i am egalitarian" ok tell everybody,where you dont want to see a woman? as your boss? as your coach? where? and most importantof all where do you want to see them? Also reading just one paragraph in a book is good enough for explanations for the whole world and nullifies all satistics anywhere and everywhere. Also their unpaid labour begins at housework when they do tons of other work after they come home from work.

I'm sure there's been a person that said I wish there was a werewolf as president, but that doesn't mean that they're is anyone stopping them from becoming the leader of the world. As women do run some countries. Or stop them from running...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/11/record-number-women-candidates-congress

Cleaning your own house, or raising your children should not make you praise worthy or deserving of compensation. Its called personal responsibility and its probably your fault you have kids or a house if you can't keep up, downgrade or don't have kids.

[QUOTE=VoodooBae;340834
if i were man and i was raped i would tell it to police and to court. it isnt me who should be ashamed in that case.

in what way you are not heard? and by whom? it isnt only me here even if i may be missing some essntial parts of posts or what not. I cant correct or cover all topic at all lengths. I am a human. I am perhaps repeating myself because you ask me the same thing over and again that i already explained according to my own understanding?

there are many people asking special attention here. I dont understand the reason. I am on the side of just explaining my view, leaving it at that. I am not expecting any special attention from individuals.just to the contrary it would make me more happy if you just ignore my posts if you can not relate to them. I wont force anyone to relate to them.[/QUOTE]

Anyone raped would feel shame, you say your human, yet you don't seem to comprehend emotions. He isn't heard because you ignore all points your too uninformed to debate. And you have said to me twice in words you ignore every word I said. So don't kid yourself saying you even read a single word you didn't agree with. You want special attention. And you got it. Thank the smite gods.

All your other posts had no arguments worth debating. And I posted this now, because you'd of ignored it anyway and tell me so, so I don't feel like I'll be missing much in your absence.

SeventhArchon
05-27-2015, 02:11 PM
Let's continue in a friendly, civil manner.


Cleaning your own house, or raising your children should not make you praise worthy or deserving of compensation. Its called personal responsibility and its probably your fault you have kids or a house if you can't keep up, downgrade or don't have kids.




Entitlement is a problem in today's society - largely caused by the excessive tolerance. Us men are now looked at as vile oppressors (the dead and gone ones now) - so the society - or rather, the media brainwashers push the notion that women are entitled to some "rights", which are far more than they promise or speak of.
History is written by the victors - or the other way around today. Those who write win the fight.
(And before I get asked about it - No, I don't believe in reptilian governments or other crazy conspiracy theories, rather just acknowledge the fact that the ones in charge often lie. I'm not trying to infer a truth. Just doubting their statements.)

AllknowingWolf
05-27-2015, 03:31 PM
Let's continue in a friendly, civil manner.

Entitlement is a problem in today's society - largely caused by the excessive tolerance. Us men are now looked at as vile oppressors (the dead and gone ones now) - so the society - or rather, the media brainwashers push the notion that women are entitled to some "rights", which are far more than they promise or speak of.
History is written by the victors - or the other way around today. Those who write win the fight.
(And before I get asked about it - No, I don't believe in reptilian governments or other crazy conspiracy theories, rather just acknowledge the fact that the ones in charge often lie. I'm not trying to infer a truth. Just doubting their statements.)

Lying is how the government people get elected. Its almost foolish not to believe that they don't constantly lie to their people. They just do, its constantly proven time and time again. And yes entitlement is the cause of 90 percent of the world's problems. Tell people what they want to hear to get what you want. That's just standard in politics nowadays.

RippleApple
05-27-2015, 11:10 PM
The problem we have is people who look at themselves as victims in order to garner sympathy and transform ordinary people into demons. It goes hand in hand with entitlement, as why would a victim not be entitled to some reparations? Are you some kind of vile oppressor? You should be ashamed and give them what they want.

This same philosophy is why people try to infer others' guilt before proving them innocent rather than the other way around. They're quick to prejudge someone as a kneejerk reaction to perceived injustices. They're idiotically destroying what took thousands of years to create. Reason. Common sense. A code of laws that protects the individual rather than the government.

My dad always said "Some people prefer to be led by the nose and they ruin it for everyone else." Sage advice.

KFire
06-16-2015, 12:05 PM
I found a quote in a book i am reading that i find quite true.

"In fact, most women in this day and age describe themselves as being feminists, regardless of their political views"

ImAeternalis
06-19-2015, 09:32 AM
I found a quote in a book i am reading that i find quite true.

"In fact, most women in this day and age describe themselves as being feminists, regardless of their political views"

That's because most of them either

1. Don't know what that implies

2. Are ignorant enough to truly believe women have unequal rights to men

Feminism doesn't have a place in the united states

I had a girl in my school who was an exchange student from Spain. She wrote on an American flag one day (and that REALLY pissed me the fuck off) and from that day we had nothing but arguments. One of them was about feminism. She stated that women don't have the same rights as men. Long story short, all she did was bitch and moan about how women aren't in positions of power. I then bombarded her with the fact of false rape accusations that everyone will believe, the fact that women always get their children in a divorce case, and how they have more social rights than men.

Where feminism is needed is in the middle east where the crazy motherfuckers known as Muslims are stoning women for showing their hair.

SeventhArchon
06-19-2015, 10:00 AM
That's because most of them either

1. Don't know what that implies

2. Are ignorant enough to truly believe women have unequal rights to men

Feminism doesn't have a place in the united states

I had a girl in my school who was an exchange student from Spain. She wrote on an American flag one day (and that REALLY pissed me the fuck off) and from that day we had nothing but arguments. One of them was about feminism. She stated that women don't have the same rights as men. Long story short, all she did was bitch and moan about how women aren't in positions of power. I then bombarded her with the fact of false rape accusations that everyone will believe, the fact that women always get their children in a divorce case, and how they have more social rights than men.

Where feminism is needed is in the middle east where the crazy motherfuckers known as Muslims are stoning women for showing their hair.

Nothing but arguments? Solving things with reason, I like it. Not a bad response.
I assume you're from the US?
Then again, Muslims aren't doing anything wrong.
Terrorists and fanatics just give Islam a bad name while there's nothing wrong with Islam in principle. As others say every tree has bad apples.
Religions need free thinkers to rightfully restore their name.
EDIT: If this goes on I'd like to separate it from feminism.

RippleApple
06-19-2015, 10:47 AM
Nothing but arguments? Solving things with reason, I like it. Not a bad response.
I assume you're from the US?
Then again, Muslims aren't doing anything wrong.
Terrorists and fanatics just give Islam a bad name while there's nothing wrong with Islam in principle. As others say every tree has bad apples.
Religions need free thinkers to rightfully restore their name.
EDIT: If this goes on I'd like to separate it from feminism.

As an apple, I can confirm every tree has bad apples. Jeremy was a bad apple. Had a worm inside of him. The problem in my apple mind is that the trees of Islam are planted in the wrong place. Tons of folks suffering from heat stroke who go completely insane with religious fervor. Too many bad apples on that tree because it's planted on top of a massive colony of worms.

Gloomweaver
06-20-2015, 04:00 AM
Neither. It all comes down to shared human delusions. There are certain beliefs common to all humans which are necessary in order for our species to thrive.. for example the delusion that our existence matters in the grand scheme of things, or the delusion that life is somehow "fair". We need to believe that what we do one second, won't simply be rendered meaningless the next second through some bizarre twist of fate. Otherwise, what would be the point to doing anything at all.. and if we do nothing at all, we would not continue to exist. So in order for us to continue to exist, we must believe that life is innately "fair". That in turn means that any time things don't go the way we think they should go, there must be some reason other than life itself. Because of the prime importance of humankind (we deserve to continue thriving because we are uniquely important.), and because humans are so common around us, the most simple answer to the "unfairness" of life is that other humans exist. But our existence is not responsible for life being "unfair", so the "unfairness" of life must be the result of the existence of other people who are different from us in some way.

aadjakar
06-26-2015, 02:15 AM
First page it's feminism.
Last page it's muslims.

I already like this thread.

Boatmurdered
06-29-2015, 07:33 AM
I was going to respond to this thread, but the apple has fallen so far from the tree it's now a new different tree. Oh well. Early bird, and all that.

SeventhArchon
06-29-2015, 12:11 PM
I was going to respond to this thread, but the apple has fallen so far from the tree it's now a new different tree. Oh well. Early bird, and all that.

Go on and bring it back on topic then :)

ImAeternalis
06-30-2015, 10:23 AM
Nothing but arguments? Solving things with reason, I like it. Not a bad response.
I assume you're from the US?
Then again, Muslims aren't doing anything wrong.
Terrorists and fanatics just give Islam a bad name while there's nothing wrong with Islam in principle. As others say every tree has bad apples.
Religions need free thinkers to rightfully restore their name.
EDIT: If this goes on I'd like to separate it from feminism.

Islam is not a religion of peace.

It instructs its followers to kill those who do not belong to Islam.

Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.



Feminism is needed where this sad excuse for a religion exists. Not in the US where women have more rights than men.

GoldenSkill
07-01-2015, 08:49 AM
i really really want to point at something, because many forget, or force themselves to,
god is the Creator. the one and only. he made everything, the good and the bad.
and he knows, which side is the best.
this is his territory, if u don't like it, go to hell.
Ignorance is a huge problem.
assuming u know that Islam is the last religion sent by God.


Where feminism is needed is in the middle east where the crazy motherfuckers known as Muslims are stoning women for showing their hair.
i really feel sad for ppl like this
i can see why u r rude with everyone.
sorry if ur country doesn't explain enough of islam. there are scientists explained what god said.
using sonah(what mohammad(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said,did...) and quraan.
in the Quran, the reason given to why Muslim women have to wear the hijab is to protect themselves from lustful gazes of men. However, in the same verse Muslim men are also ordered to lower their gaze so they will be held accountable whether the woman is dressed modestly or not.
In Islam women are not valued by their physical appearance. Instead women will be judged by their piety, actions and intentions. This way women are not degraded and belittled if they are considered unattractive, instead they would feel worthy of themselves by pleasing their creator alone and not the people.
let me ask you this, isn't it unfair to demand a women to make herself look attractive? Most women these days are unhappy with the way they look, they are pressured into buying cosmetics, wearing make-up, trying to lose weight to get the "perfect" figure, and to please who exactly? Isn't this unfair? Men don't need to do all this, why women? Is this to please society or your creator?
Women are asked to cover their beauty, and likewise men are asked to lower their gaze. Mary the mother of Jesus wore the hijab and so do nuns. Its a sign of self respect, freedom from societal pressures and submission to God.
idk about "stoning women for showing their hair."... where did u get this? because even in my country, many womens wear inappropriate clothes and say we follow islam. what a shame. but i have nothing heard about stoning.
i think i explained enough here.
most of this offtopic, i just had to make it clear so ppl pick the right path insteed of cursing islam for no reason.
idk if u r athiest or what, but i assure u, allah wants the good for us, life is more like a test for each human, if u don't want to trust him, i am very sure u'll fear death. the true muslim doesn't, because life is by god's will, accept ur destiny with the good and bad, in the end, god will give u ur reward, heaven or hel.
i hope all this didn't go for nothing. this is a very small part of islam, just try and understand it, u'll see how awesome it is not just about prohibitions.

ImAeternalis
07-01-2015, 09:39 AM
If you are muslim or live in a muslim country and think all of that, sorry, but you haven't read your own religious book.

Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Excerpt K 9:012-014
Set 34, Count 92-94 [9.12] ...fight the leaders of unbelief...[9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

K 4:074-077
Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are oppressors, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper. [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan; surely the strategy of the Satan is weak. [4.77] Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; but when fighting is prescribed for them, lo! a party of them fear men as they ought to have feared Allah, or (even) with a greater fear, and say: Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us? Wherefore didst Thou not grant us a delay to a near end? Say: The provision of this world is short, and the hereafter is better for him who guards (against evil); and you shall not be wronged the husk of a date stone.

There are 109 verses that take out excerpts from the Quran about killing or proposing violence against non-believers in http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

I'm christian, btw. Before anyone brings up verses in Leviticus or something, the Bible is written by humans. It is never going to be perfect. It is never going to have infallible words of God.

GoldenSkill
07-01-2015, 11:47 AM
idk about quraan in English, i am arabic. but what i really know, u shouldn't take info from the internet, many will try to make it look like a bad religion, in our country we r facing terrorism, killing muslims and saying that they are fighting for god's sake
u should take the info from famous books of islam, there is a reason why scientists are there, u can't understand it easily by urself.
christian, good to know
if u beleive in god, how can't u beleive in his last prophet? in his last book? Muhammad is a muslim too
he said quraan is the perfect of them all, the old ones are there to fit ppl's minds how they was back in time.
the stoning to women that shows her hair is not true and as i explained, wearing the hijab is to make it fair for each women, for her safety, and the same thing goes for men as they must pay attention and empower their will over desire.
u can see this small detail will protect womens and force men to keep them away from sins and protecting the society in general
and one more thing, the islamic book is the same since the beginning till now, but for christians, there are things edited by humans because the book itself is not complete, quraan is.
now about islam being a religion of war, wrong, islam encourages everyone to stay ready for war, not to destroy anything because not muslims. we fight for god's sake, to push away the Injustice and Aggression. but this doesn't mean all of our country will attack lol, ofc not, we have our army. when police was playing dirty, the military took charge to defend people.
do i look like a terrorist?
)يا أيها الناس إنا خلقناكم من ذكر وأنثى وجعلناكم شعوبا وقبائل لتعارفوا إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم( (الحجرات:13)
this is in arabic, god saying here that he made us males and females , nations and tribes to know each other.
not to blow each other, christianity is a religion of god too.
i understand ur fear about islam, there are many, many rumors about islam being an evil religion. so wrong.
if u beleive in god, u should know they are lies. and those who try to make Muhammad a bad person, christian or not, god won't forgive them,
i think u know stories about the very old prophets, god sent them, the tribe refuse to listen, god destroys them. like Noah(nuh). will u call that violence ? no, because he killed those who don't deserve to live.
)ولا تقتلوا النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق( (الأنعام:151).
god said here don't kill any person god has forbidden , only do it by right
means don't kill unless that person deserve it.
don't even look at that site again,quraan definity not a religion of war, it is for peace, for ppl that are ready to do anything god orders to, its a way of life.
being a muslim means believing that everything Muhammad and the god(quraan) said, is right, true without questioning. but like i said, scientists explained the book, islam calls for peace, the word islam means to surrender, to who? to allah. islam comes from the word, "salam"(arabic) means peace and safety.
)من أجل ذلك كتبنا على بني إسرائيل أنه من قتل نفسا بغير نفس أو فساد في الأرض فكأنما قتل الناس جميعا ومن أحياها فكأنما أحيا الناس جميعا( (المائدة:32).
any person that kills another, without a good reason, considered he made a big sin,like if u killed them all,the opposite is right too, because he took someone's life and didn't let him live(the right of any human).
another edit: i can make this even longer, but the quraan is huge and i don't even think 1 day is enough,i already told u it contains everything and didn't change since the first sec it came out, i think it is good at this point, after this if u still insist islam is for
crazy motherfuckers
like u said, i have no way to heal u with.
maybe other ppl will make use of this. do i look like a terrorist?
i am more peaceful than what u think.
This can help , I did read it myself. http://islamqa.info/en/209600

chillipowda
07-02-2015, 10:34 AM
Imo, all the above with "god" etc. I don't find the reason you're fighting about it. Neither of you will succeed and you'll only fight for longer. Get on with your own belief and stop trying to scream at another for being different. I'm Atheist, believe in neither heaven nor hell, or any apparition of god any religion has. So what? It doesn't comfort me and the teachings that any "holy book" teach will be from humans, stop following your own so close-mindedly and get over it. Christians lynch gays for leviticus, muslims stone women for showing skin, not all but it does exist. The best way to handle it all is to not

GoldenSkill
07-09-2015, 11:39 AM
Imo, all the above with "god" etc. I don't find the reason you're fighting about it. Neither of you will succeed and you'll only fight for longer. Get on with your own belief and stop trying to scream at another for being different. I'm Atheist, believe in neither heaven nor hell, or any apparition of god any religion has. So what? It doesn't comfort me and the teachings that any "holy book" teach will be from humans, stop following your own so close-mindedly and get over it. Christians lynch gays for leviticus, muslims stone women for showing skin, not all but it does exist. The best way to handle it all is to not
ignoring the existence of god, is like worshiping life, that is created by him.
Atheist, when the time comes, and god asks u, why u didn't beleive in me, what will ur answer be? i want to live free?
islam itself offers freedom.
what i wrote here is not raging or screaming, i am trying to show ppl the good of the islamic religion.
i am not trying to force anyone to become a muslim, each person is responsible for what he is doing in life,i understand how many don't trust the info they get about islam, but if anyone beleives in god, should never call muslims like that.
really, if u ppl try to understand islam, u'll realize it is the best way to live. 100% god's words.
i don't even understand how christians beleive in a book, some of it was edited by humans.

LanceUppercutt
07-09-2015, 01:35 PM
really, if u ppl try to understand islam, u'll realize it is the best way to live.

nah, I like having a dog as a pet. Islam is haram for me.

SeventhArchon
07-09-2015, 03:58 PM
ignoring the existence of god, is like worshiping life, that is created by him.
Atheist, when the time comes, and god asks u, why u didn't beleive in me, what will ur answer be? i want to live free?
islam itself offers freedom.
what i wrote here is not raging or screaming, i am trying to show ppl the good of the islamic religion.
i am not trying to force anyone to become a muslim, each person is responsible for what he is doing in life,i understand how many don't trust the info they get about islam, but if anyone beleives in god, should never call muslims like that.
really, if u ppl try to understand islam, u'll realize it is the best way to live. 100% god's words.
i don't even understand how christians beleive in a book, some of it was edited by humans.
This has gone completely off topic. How is this related to feminism?
Anyway, can't an atheist just say "there was no definite proof you existed"?

Pokechu212
07-09-2015, 06:43 PM
i don't even understand how christians believe in a book, some of it was edited by humans.
The Bible is essentially a big book of extreme over-exaggerations of some maybe-true events. If anything, a lot of the book is really just fiction that is trying to teach the reader something about life or to connect the reader with God. Unfortunately, people can be stupid enough to think that a man could actually walk on water, because, you know, logic.

GoldenSkill
07-10-2015, 07:33 AM
This has gone completely off topic. How is this related to feminism?
Anyway, can't an atheist just say "there was no definite proof you existed"?
sorry, it was a must really, i couldn't stand and Watch or act like nothing happened. ppl must know the truth and stop doing big sins that may lead them to perdition.
umm.. how about a song :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5LZopqyio

The Quran speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation.
u may say ppl made it, and its just a guess; there was not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the quran is Divine.
.
about feminism
islam showed tolerance and equality, even at the times where girls were getting buried alive just for their gender.

IrishPotato
07-10-2015, 09:31 AM
ignoring the existence of god, is like worshiping life, that is created by him.
Atheist, when the time comes, and god asks u, why u didn't beleive in me, what will ur answer be? i want to live free?
islam itself offers freedom.
really, if u ppl try to understand islam, u'll realize it is the best way to live. 100% god's words.


What you think is the best way to live is not how I think is the best way to live, let's keep it that way. There exists something called religious tolerance, where differing opinions are put aside.

GoldenSkill
07-10-2015, 12:38 PM
What you think is the best way to live is not how I think is the best way to live, let's keep it that way. There exists something called religious tolerance, where differing opinions are put aside.

i don't mean exactly how u live, it is how the life is organized;
-the definition of a good person, good manners, with the lead of the sonah and Quran we all can live in peace.
less crimes,less hate, lean how to deal with urself, others, and God, this is the way to a balanced life.
but for opinions each human will have his own personal life, what he likes, what he loves, what he wants to become...
[prophets spent all their lifes spreading the info about there is one god and is watching every one of us, the last prophet died(imagine how much they suffered), but leaving tons of info to teach us how to live,he made wars for us to push the aggression out of our lifes(now they are calling what he did terrorism... oh God, he is a prophet ppl!)
there was a time where humans was worshipping trees because it was their source of money! look how ppl can be stupid, they didn't affect themselves only, but their childrens too! but god decided to help us, lead us to the right path, why humans are rejecting it now?
u can say "i am a christian" but that is probably because ur fathers was too(a common problem nowadays), make mistakes, small or big, affect other ppl with ur actions, ruin the society, and the most feared part is ignoring god in our lifes, the biggest mistake
at least atheists are trying to understand the world from their point of view...]
.
there is no hate between religions as long as they don't serve to go against god himself.
u r free to beleive what u want. but living in a non-existing world won't help any human.

IrishPotato
07-11-2015, 06:52 PM
u can say "i am a christian" but that is probably because ur fathers was too(a common problem nowadays)

u r free to beleive what u want. but living in a non-existing world won't help any human.


1. I never mentioned my personal form of belief. In fact, I have no religion; I don't believe in any higher power.

2. Quite the contrary. The Ms. Potato shares the same lifestyle as myself, we have no beliefs in any power other than what we can do on our own. (This is simply our way of life, not trying to say it's better than any other) She's a Firefighter and an EMT. She saves human lives every day, and aids those who aren't in life threatening situations. Does she believe in God? Nope. Does she help humans by living in your concept of a "non-existing world"? Every day.

Again, please do not try to put your beliefs on the table as the better way to live. While you say you aren't, subtly you are and it's very rude/ignorant.

SeventhArchon
07-12-2015, 01:54 AM
1. I never mentioned my personal form of belief. In fact, I have no religion; I don't believe in any higher power.

2. Quite the contrary. The Ms. Potato shares the same lifestyle as myself, we have no beliefs in any power other than what we can do on our own. (This is simply our way of life, not trying to say it's better than any other) She's a Firefighter and an EMT. She saves human lives every day, and aids those who aren't in life threatening situations. Does she believe in God? Nope. Does she help humans by living in your concept of a "non-existing world"? Every day.

Again, please do not try to put your beliefs on the table as the better way to live. While you say you aren't, subtly you are and it's very rude/ignorant.

Not trying to defend any religion here, but it's what you should expect. They believe religion is the better way to live and they shouldn't be afraid to put it on the table just like you and your atheism.

SeventhArchon
07-12-2015, 01:57 AM
about feminism
islam showed tolerance and equality, even at the times where girls were getting buried alive just for their gender.
Can you show an example?
An example where the same women originally weren't oppressed by Islam itself. And by oppressed I mean made "worth less than a man".

LunSei
07-12-2015, 05:45 AM
Well.
The definition of feminism: that men and women are equal, and neither gender is superior to the other in freedom, social rights or intelligence.

End of discussion.

SeventhArchon
07-12-2015, 06:11 AM
Well.
The definition of feminism: that men and women are equal, and neither gender is superior to the other in freedom, social rights or intelligence.

End of discussion.
Provided to you by a thousand liars and a million sheep.

LunSei
07-12-2015, 07:01 AM
Provided to you by a thousand liars and a million sheep.


Sorry, my definition of feminism IS correct.

There are men and women who hate men or women, and therefore use "feminism" as a word to imply "man-hating" or "women are better than men".
This is, however, their own problem, and a symbol of their issues.

Feminism IS equality between genders. I don't care if some people decided to use it for their own agenda, giving the word a different meaning.

It's time we stop calling "feminism" things that ARE NOT FEMINISM.

I'll say it one last time: feminism is equality between genders, nothing else. Disregard people with issues, who give other meanings to the word. Feminism means you think men and women are equals, so in this regard, if you are NOT a feminist, you're an idiot.

SeventhArchon
07-12-2015, 07:14 AM
Sorry, my definition of feminism IS correct.

There are men and women who hate men or women, and therefore use "feminism" as a word to imply "man-hating" or "women are better than men".
This is, however, their own problem, and a symbol of their issues.

Feminism IS equality between genders. I don't care if some people decided to use it for their own agenda, giving the word a different meaning.

It's time we stop calling "feminism" things that ARE NOT FEMINISM.

I'll say it one last time: feminism is equality between genders, nothing else. Disregard people with issues, who give other meanings to the word. Feminism means you think men and women are equals, so in this regard, if you are NOT a feminist, you're an idiot.

I'm egalitarian - therefore not an idiot by your definition. The original post should explain what I mean. Feminism has become something else these days - the only thing they want to do is preserve the privileges of women and erase the privileges of men. It's time to abandon this wreck because if you support feminism, you're going against equality whether you like it or not because you're fueling the bad ones in charge.
I agree we should call out hatred against both equally but feminism supporting equality is a lost cause and balance needs to be restored through something else.
After all - there's a contradiction in the name.

LunSei
07-12-2015, 08:47 AM
I'm egalitarian - therefore not an idiot by your definition. The original post should explain what I mean. Feminism has become something else these days - the only thing they want to do is preserve the privileges of women and erase the privileges of men. It's time to abandon this wreck because if you support feminism, you're going against equality whether you like it or not because you're fueling the bad ones in charge.
I agree we should call out hatred against both equally but feminism supporting equality is a lost cause and balance needs to be restored through something else.
After all - there's a contradiction in the name.



FEMINISM IS EQUALITY BETWEEN SEXES. FEMINISM IS A POSITIVE WORD. STOP TRYING TO USE IT AS AN INSULT, STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT. Because of people like you, if I say "I am a feminist", people assume I am either an annoying white-knight hypocrite man, or a repressed man-hating woman. STOP IT. STOP USING THE WORD "FEMINISM" WHEN REFERRING TO A MINORITY OF INSANE PEOPLE.

Incidentally, never, never have I seen a "feminist" woman who actually hates men. I am quite certain they exist, but I haven't met one.
What I have seen many, many, many times, however.... is men perceiving a feminist woman as a woman who hates men.

Here is an example - if I say "I am a feminist, and I wish Smite added more variety in the female characters".... certain people will assume I am the strawman feminist you are talking about. They will think I am saying "I hate sexy women, grrr, I want them to disappear from this game!". While what I am saying is "Sexy women are awesome, but why can't we also get something else AND sexy women, like in every other moba out there?".

Feminists want female characters like the protagonist of PS4's new game Horizon. Feminists also want sexy chicks like Sylvanas and Kerrigan from "Heroes of the Storm", because that is the same game which has female characters like Brightwing and Zagara.

Strawman feminists, the people you are imagining exist somewhere in the world, are not feminists... they're imaginary people who want female characters to be always ugly and think no female protagonist can ever be like Bayonetta.
But a good new for you: strawman feminists don't exist.

LanceUppercutt
07-12-2015, 09:07 AM
FEMINISM IS EQUALITY BETWEEN SEXES. FEMINISM IS A POSITIVE WORD. STOP TRYING TO USE IT AS AN INSULT, STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT. Because of people like you, if I say "I am a feminist", people assume I am either an annoying white-knight hypocrite man, or a repressed man-hating woman. STOP IT. STOP USING THE WORD "FEMINISM" WHEN REFERRING TO A MINORITY OF INSANE PEOPLE.

But a good new for you: strawman feminists don't exist.

sorry, they do exist and that is what feminist has come to mean (third wave feminism)

if you don't think they exist just simply look at tumblr or gender/womens studies

LunSei
07-12-2015, 11:44 AM
sorry, they do exist and that is what feminist has come to mean (third wave feminism)

if you don't think they exist just simply look at tumblr or gender/womens studies


No, they don't exist.
They are people like me. They make a statement like "I wish I could play as a beast goddess, it's kinda sexist that only male gods get to be badass monsters in Smite".
And someone else thinks what they said is "I wish every female goddess ever looked like a beast, for some reason, because I hate men and don't want them to look at girls".

You think I am wrong? Then show me. Show me an example of an actual manhating feminist.

LanceUppercutt
07-12-2015, 12:49 PM
No, they don't exist.

they sure do, I see it all the time in real life and online, not sure why you are wasting your time trying to tell me they dont exist. This is what feminism has become. It is no longer about equality.


You think I am wrong? Then show me. Show me an example of an actual manhating feminist.

off the top of my head, things like #killallmen
http://i.imgur.com/8aofjDE.jpg

LunSei
07-12-2015, 01:14 PM
they sure do, I see it all the time in real life and online, not sure why you are wasting your time trying to tell me they dont exist. This is what feminism has become. It is no longer about equality.



off the top of my head, things like #killallmen
http://i.imgur.com/8aofjDE.jpg



This is the internet.
50% of chance the thing you just posted is fake.
50% of chance that the person there is just a retard.

So tell me, because the world has retards, we must repress feminism? Turn feminism into an insult?

Please, follow this logic. Imagine if you please, on the internet, a few young German people who love nazism. I am sure you could actually find those if you looked for them.
So I pick these examples of rare, disturbed German people who advocate nazism and racial superiority. Then I use it as an example to say that "this is what Germany has become".
German people, 99,5% of them, are innocent - there's just a few bad apples whose insanity has nothing to do with them being German but has all to do with them having personal issues. They would have the same issues if they were Italian or American.
But because of my examples, I say German people are nazists.

You are doing the same thing with feminism.You find the 0,01% of madness and use it to demonstrate that feminism is bad.

Stop doing this. Feminism is an awesome thing - feminism is exactly as awesome as civil rights and racial equality and homosexual and heterosexual equality. By hating feminism, you are no different than people who say "now the rights of black people have become bad, clearly black people want to have it better than whites, so if you are for equality you are actually doing wrong".

There are gay people who happen to be murderers, and this has nothing to do with them being gay. There are black people who are thieves and this has nothing to do with them being black. Stop making these dangerous associations. Or I will think YOU are one of those disturbed people with personal issues they are projecting on something (men, or women, or feminism....)
[/B]

LanceUppercutt
07-12-2015, 01:27 PM
This is the internet.
50% of chance that the person there is just a retard.

being retarded and a feminist are not mutually exclusive


So tell me, because the world has retards, we must repress feminism? Turn feminism into an insult?

I would say because feminism is retarded it has turned into an insult


You are doing the same thing with feminism.You find the 0,01% of madness and use it to demonstrate that feminism is bad.

feminism itself demonstrates it is bad with its ideas of patriarchy, wage gap and privilege. these are all key components of feminism now and you can find it in most universities and colleges


Stop doing this. Feminism is an awesome thing - feminism is exactly as awesome as civil rights and racial equality and homosexual and heterosexual equality. By hating feminism, you are no different than people who say "now the rights of black people have become bad, clearly black people want to have it better than whites, so if you are for equality you are actually doing wrong".

na, feminism is shit. and i would say there is a good case for some black people wanting to have it better than whites, but that is more of a left wing issue with things like quotas and affirmative action


There are gay people who happen to be murderers, and this has nothing to do with them being gay. There are black people who are thieves and this has nothing to do with them being black. Stop making these dangerous associations. Or I will think YOU are one of those disturbed people with personal issues they are projecting on something (men, or women, or feminism....)
[/B]

the difference is feminism is an ideology, and its ideology is bad at the core

The only time I have seen the "feminism = equal rights" is in the middle east and africa

LunSei
07-12-2015, 01:34 PM
na, feminism is shit. and i would say there is a good case for some black people wanting to have it better than whites, but that is more of a left wing issue with things like quotas and affirmative action



the difference is feminism is an ideology, and its ideology is bad at the core


I.... don't think there really is anything to say here. "Feminism is shit". And to make it even better, you subtly implied it might be kinda true that black people want it better than whites.

"Feminism is shit".
Why don't you take the next step?
"Homosexuality is shit."
"Racial equality is shit."

You are projecting your own personal issues on others. You are exactly like the racist guy who picks up the news about that black guy who robbed a store, so he can say that he is right in being racist.

Feminism is equality of genders. THIS is the ideology you're talking about. You're twisting and turning things so you can say what you really want to say, that "feminism is shit", without being looked up the way people look at someone who is hating on others.

I don't think there is anything I could possibly to do help you. You will continue hating feminism, and trying to demonstrate that feminism doesn't mean what it means.
You are like the racist guy who will constantly look up news of black people doing crimes, so they can constantly be reassured they aren't wrong in being racist.

Keep looking up for those news. I am sorry for you, but I know you won't listen. Besides, I AM a feminist, so I am shit, isn't it? I probably want to cut men's dicks off. I probably want higher work wages than males AND all social benefits, isn't it?

LanceUppercutt
07-12-2015, 01:46 PM
I.... don't think there really is anything to say here. "Feminism is shit". And to make it even better, you subtly implied it might be kinda true that black people want it better than whites.

subtly? "there is a good case for some black people wanting to have it better than whites" sounds pretty clear to me



You are projecting your own personal issues on others. You are exactly like the racist guy who picks up the news about that black guy who robbed a store, so he can say that he is right in being racist.

You seem confused as to what is going on, I am saying feminism is shit because of what it now stands for, you can say only a small % of feminists are retarded but it is the vast majority I see, there are literally university programs espousing the same ideas I am talking about



Feminism is equality of genders. THIS is the ideology you're talking about. You're twisting and turning things so you can say what you really want to say, that "feminism is shit", without being looked up the way people look at someone who is hating on others.

Feminists can say it is about equality of genders, but all the activism and protests betray that (in the west)


I don't think there is anything I could possibly to do help you. You will continue hating feminism, and trying to demonstrate that feminism doesn't mean what it means.
You are like the racist guy who will constantly look up news of black people doing crimes, so they can constantly be reassured they aren't wrong in being racist.

Good thing I wasn't looking for any help, I already have a clear view of what feminism has become, also if a racist person would want proof that some minority commits more crime they would do better by looking and government crime stats instead of anecdotal evidence on the news


Besides, I AM a feminist, so I am shit, isn't it?
Na, just your beliefs and values (assuming you are a third wave feminist)


http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Women+logic_8b7d15_4195856.jpg

LunSei
07-12-2015, 02:01 PM
subtly? "there is a good case for some black people wanting to have it better than whites" sounds pretty clear to me




You seem confused as to what is going on, I am saying feminism is shit because of what it now stands for, you can say only a small % of feminists are retarded but it is the vast majority I see, there are literally university programs espousing the same ideas I am talking about




Feminists can say it is about equality of genders, but all the activism and protests betray that (in the west)



Good thing I wasn't looking for any help, I already have a clear view of what feminism has become, also if a racist person would want proof that some minority commits more crime they would do better by looking and government crime stats instead of anecdotal evidence on the news


Na, just your beliefs and values (assuming you are a third wave feminist)


http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Women+logic_8b7d15_4195856.jpg


http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/5101c0baeab8eaa25b000000/israel-punishes-female-soldiers-for-posting-racy-pictures-to-facebook.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02995/Female_Soldier_2995058b.jpg

http://sardiniareporter.blog.tiscali.it/wp-content/blogs.dir/60171/files/afghanistan-le-donne-soldato/afghanistan_img_5996-copia.jpg


Feminism is this.
Feminism is not only having the good things men have.
Feminism is also the right to suffer the same way men have. If men decide to die in war, so should women too.

LanceUppercutt
07-12-2015, 02:12 PM
looks a lot more like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY-5ISEHPg

LunSei
07-12-2015, 03:20 PM
The racist guy will always, always find a lot of news reporting black people doing so many crimes.

SeventhArchon
07-12-2015, 04:52 PM
Before anything remember: I support gender equality just like you say you do.

FEMINISM IS EQUALITY BETWEEN SEXES. FEMINISM IS A POSITIVE WORD. STOP TRYING TO USE IT AS AN INSULT, STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING IT'S NOT. Because of people like you, if I say "I am a feminist", people assume I am either an annoying white-knight hypocrite man, or a repressed man-hating woman. STOP IT. STOP USING THE WORD "FEMINISM" WHEN REFERRING TO A MINORITY OF INSANE PEOPLE.
Statistically their chance of being right isn't exactly low.
Incidentally, never, never have I seen a "feminist" woman who actually hates men. I am quite certain they exist, but I haven't met one.
Take a look around. Gender studies and feminist media are at your service for this.
What I have seen many, many, many times, however.... is men perceiving a feminist woman as a woman who hates men.
Do you spend time on 9gag or something? There aren't many people who believe all feminists hate men except for the "always nice friendzone knights" - and at 9gag they're amassed in huge amounts.
Here is an example - if I say "I am a feminist, and I wish Smite added more variety in the female characters".... certain people will assume I am the strawman feminist you are talking about. They will think I am saying "I hate sexy women, grrr, I want them to disappear from this game!". While what I am saying is "Sexy women are awesome, but why can't we also get something else AND sexy women, like in every other moba out there?".
I'm all for unattractive beastly women in Smite for the sake of originality and diversity.
Feminists want female characters like the protagonist of PS4's new game Horizon. Feminists also want sexy chicks like Sylvanas and Kerrigan from "Heroes of the Storm", because that is the same game which has female characters like Brightwing and Zagara.
Feminists and gaming. The last time I saw the two meet it ended up horribly. Look up "feminist frequency" (it's a magazine I think) and see what I mean, they're a good example.
Strawman feminists, the people you are imagining exist somewhere in the world, are not feminists... they're imaginary people who want female characters to be always ugly and think no female protagonist can ever be like Bayonetta.
But a good new for you: strawman feminists don't exist.
They might be strawmen for you if you believe in equality. They're advancing something else in the name of equality and call it feminism. And they turn innocent, egalitarian feminists into hypocrites or in the worse cases misandrists.

No, they don't exist.
They are people like me. They make a statement like "I wish I could play as a beast goddess, it's kinda sexist that only male gods get to be badass monsters in Smite".
And someone else thinks what they said is "I wish every female goddess ever looked like a beast, for some reason, because I hate men and don't want them to look at girls".

You think I am wrong? Then show me. Show me an example of an actual manhating feminist.
People around here will provide I'm sure, but I've decided I won't be a lazy ass for once: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Havent-Lost-My-Virginity/1269918 Don't look at the stuff around it. Just at the quotes. They're real, look them up if you don't believe me.

they sure do, I see it all the time in real life and online, not sure why you are wasting your time trying to tell me they dont exist. This is what feminism has become. It is no longer about equality.



off the top of my head, things like #killallmen
[IMG]
Pretty much.

This is the internet.
50% of chance the thing you just posted is fake.
50% of chance that the person there is just a retard.
Such "retards" are in positions of power and control this "equality". I don't believe most of them are retards, sadly I think they know what they're doing all too well.
So tell me, because the world has retards, we must repress feminism? Turn feminism into an insult?

Please, follow this logic. Imagine if you please, on the internet, a few young German people who love nazism. I am sure you could actually find those if you looked for them.
So I pick these examples of rare, disturbed German people who advocate nazism and racial superiority. Then I use it as an example to say that "this is what Germany has become".
German people, 99,5% of them, are innocent - there's just a few bad apples whose insanity has nothing to do with them being German but has all to do with them having personal issues. They would have the same issues if they were Italian or American.
But because of my examples, I say German people are nazists.
Nazism in Germans is pretty rare and generally not an accepted POV at all. Female superiority in feminism may as well be a majority.
You are doing the same thing with feminism.You find the 0,01% of madness and use it to demonstrate that feminism is bad.

Stop doing this. Feminism is an awesome thing - feminism is exactly as awesome as civil rights and racial equality and homosexual and heterosexual equality. By hating feminism, you are no different than people who say "now the rights of black people have become bad, clearly black people want to have it better than whites, so if you are for equality you are actually doing wrong".
Black people might become overprivileged in time but they're nowhere near as high as women above men in the peak of civilization. Once black people will be placed above other races it will become wrong as well. It's not quite happening yet.
There are gay people who happen to be murderers, and this has nothing to do with them being gay. There are black people who are thieves and this has nothing to do with them being black. Stop making these dangerous associations. Or I will think YOU are one of those disturbed people with personal issues they are projecting on something (men, or women, or feminism....)
[/B]
I don't blame feminists for unrelated murders and thievings. Only for trying to impose gender inequality. I don't need to project a thing. I'm all for equality, remember?

LunSei
07-13-2015, 03:37 AM
Hey, you don't need to speak as if feminists are something separate. I AM A FEMINIST. So go on, tell me how I want to promote inequality? I'm listening.

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 03:43 AM
Hey, you don't need to speak as if feminists are something separate. I AM A FEMINIST. So go on, tell me how I want to promote inequality? I'm listening.

I'm speaking as if feminists are separate because they are. People in charge of the movement promote inequality. You're probably a passive "feminist" that wants equality and you're just deceived into thinking what they say means equality. The problem is what they say and what they want are opposites.

LunSei
07-13-2015, 05:12 AM
I'm speaking as if feminists are separate because they are. People in charge of the movement promote inequality. You're probably a passive "feminist" that wants equality and you're just deceived into thinking what they say means equality. The problem is what they say and what they want are opposites.


Who are these leaders of the feminist movement who are promoting inequality? I'm talking actual political leaders, not random nutcases you go search on the internet.
Please tell me who they are.

How am I passive? I am actively striving for equality - I want women to have the same work opportunities as men, the same wages as men, and to occupy the same leading roles of importance. I want fathers to have the same chances to keep their children as mothers have, in case of a divorce, if it turns out the mother is actually a less responsible parent.

Being passive means you're not doing anything. I am an active feminist. This thing I am doing here? This is being active, too. I am explaining what feminism is to people like you, who are projecting their issues on women.

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 05:35 AM
Who are these leaders of the feminist movement who are promoting inequality? I'm talking actual political leaders, not random nutcases you go search on the internet.
Please tell me who they are.

How am I passive? I am actively striving for equality - I want women to have the same work opportunities as men, the same wages as men, and to occupy the same leading roles of importance. I want fathers to have the same chances to keep their children as mothers have, in case of a divorce, if it turns out the mother is actually a less responsible parent.

Being passive means you're not doing anything. I am an active feminist. This thing I am doing here? This is being active, too. I am explaining what feminism is to people like you, who are projecting their issues on women.

I don't project a single issue on women, actually I'm a "feminist" by your outdated definition.
If you're an activist too, (again, I said probably) you're doing it for the wrong cause.
"Random nutcases from the Internet" - let's clarify this.
Do you mean Facebook posts like the one on the last page or qualified writers for feminist media?
Facebook posts like the one on the last page were probably made by a misandrist or idiot. And no, I don't mean them, they're a worthless source. The quotes I sent you were not "random nutcases from the internet" - those were people from feminist media (again, look up feminist frequency if you haven't already) that control what messages are being sent out to the normal feminist person (such as you).
As for political leaders, I don't mean any politicians. I mean the ones who are in charge of feminism in media. Those people who give you a speech that highlights zero men's disadvantages and hundreds of women's - and claims it's equality when according to their plan only the women have their issues fixed. If you want more details you can look it up yourself - be wary, they won't say what I've said, rather they'll disguise the very same content under the name of equality.

LunSei
07-13-2015, 05:50 AM
I told you to bring me actual leaders of the feminist movement, to show me how they are actually the kind of person you say they are.

And the example you gave me is some Facebook post. Wow.

You are pushing hard so that people see feminism the way you do. I asked you to show me CONCRETE examples that the actual movement of feminism is not about equality but is about hating men or whatever you're saying.

Billy Jean King.
Coco Chanel.
Gloria Steinem.
Benazir Bhutto.
Tawakkol Karman.
Leymah Gbowee.

Now, YOU give me the name of important people (nobel winners and sport champions, like I have just listed) who promote the "feminism" YOU are talking about.
Or could it be that YOUR "feminism" is just the one you find in random Facebook posts, not in actual politics?

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 07:58 AM
Do you mean Facebook posts like the one on the last page or qualified writers for feminist media?
Facebook posts like the one on the last page were probably made by a misandrist or idiot. And no, I don't mean them, they're a worthless source. The quotes I sent you were not "random nutcases from the internet" - those were people from feminist media (again, look up feminist frequency if you haven't already) that control what messages are being sent out to the normal feminist person (such as you).

Did you fail your reading comprehension test?

LunSei
07-13-2015, 08:53 AM
Did you fail your reading comprehension test?

Yep. English isn't my language, sorry.

I don't read Feminist Frequency. I think now I will, to see if what you say is true.

Now, back to my question: I have given you important names of feminists. You give me names of people who act the way you say feminists do. If all you can find is a website, well, welcome to the internet, where you can find websites for everything. I could show you a very active Reddit about beating women, for example.

LanceUppercutt
07-13-2015, 10:01 AM
not in actual politics?

oh, so like swedens feminist party's who wanted to ban men from standing while the pee or the political parties who advocate for gender quotas in the board room?

not to mention every feminist arguing for equal pay in a free market

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 11:41 AM
Yep. English isn't my language, sorry.

I don't read Feminist Frequency. I think now I will, to see if what you say is true.

Now, back to my question: I have given you important names of feminists. You give me names of people who act the way you say feminists do. If all you can find is a website, well, welcome to the internet, where you can find websites for everything. I could show you a very active Reddit about beating women, for example.

If you want more stuff about Feminist Frequency, check out Anita Sarkeesian (the woman from FF that's so popular/hated/etc) and FF's videos.
I have you a set of quotes from real feminist writers. Check it out. (reposting here in a sec)
Which of the people you listed are from the contemporary and civilized world? Because if they're from third world countries or a different age (21st century feminists please), their feminism is probably justified.
So here it is:



People around here will provide I'm sure, but I've decided I won't be a lazy ass for once: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Havent-Lost-My-Virginity/1269918 Don't look at the stuff around it. Just at the quotes. They're real, look them up if you don't believe me.




Some website I don't know put together a few feminist quotes from people who are more than just a run off the mill Facebook idiot. Don't mind the website (not even I know what it's about), those quotes don't come from the site where it's posted.

LunSei
07-13-2015, 11:44 AM
I want NAMES. Names of actual, famouse people. Not strawmen.
The only name I heard so far is Anita, because it is actually the only name people like you know (disregard nobel prize winners, Anita is more popular because she's talking about videogames, isn't it?).
Is it the same Anita who won the Developers Choice Award? So are you saying videogame developers, the same people who make the videogames you play, are that kind of man-hating "feminists" you are talking about?

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 11:48 AM
I want NAMES. Names of actual, famouse people. Not strawmen.
The only name I heard so far is Anita, because it is actually the only name people like you know (disregard nobel prize winners, Anita is more popular because she's talking about videogames, isn't it?).
Is it the same Anita who won the Developers Choice Award? So are you saying videogame developers, the same people who make the videogames you play, are that kind of man-hating "feminists" you are talking about?

I'm not sure what she won and didn't. But she tried to censor a lot of stuff in gaming.
Anyway, I've sent you the quotes again. Look those people up, they're not strawmen.

LunSei
07-13-2015, 11:49 AM
I'm not sure what she won and didn't. But she tried to censor a lot of stuff in gaming.
Anyway, I've sent you the quotes again. Look those people up, they're not strawmen.


Really? She censored things? This is why the developers gave her a prize? Tell me, what did she censor exactly? I am curious. Tell me the things she wants to censor.

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 11:53 AM
Really? She censored things? This is why the developers gave her a prize? Tell me, what did she censor exactly? I am curious. Tell me the things she wants to censor.

The whole thing where she does it is called "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games".

LunSei
07-13-2015, 11:55 AM
The whole thing where she does it is called "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games".


And of course if you brought her as an example and told me she wants to censor things, you know what she wants to censor. Please, tell me. Surely you would know,

LanceUppercutt
07-13-2015, 12:02 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_feminists#Mid_to_late_20th-century_and_all_21st-century_feminists

then just pick out ones labelled third wave and radical

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 12:17 PM
And of course if you brought her as an example and told me she wants to censor things, you know what she wants to censor. Please, tell me. Surely you would know,

Look the series up. She mostly wants to censor characters wearing "symbols" that oppress women or something (honestly it's been ages since I watched any of their vids). Hoop earrings were one of the symbols (god knows why, that's in the vids) that I can remember off the top of my head.
What do you think of the rest of the quotes I gave you? The ones from the feminist writers. I didn't only give you Anita.

LunSei
07-13-2015, 02:33 PM
Look the series up. She mostly wants to censor characters wearing "symbols" that oppress women or something (honestly it's been ages since I watched any of their vids). Hoop earrings were one of the symbols (god knows why, that's in the vids) that I can remember off the top of my head.
What do you think of the rest of the quotes I gave you? The ones from the feminist writers. I didn't only give you Anita.

So, you don't even KNOW what Anita is talking about. Yet, you tell me she is a good example of what you were talking about. Despite you not really being able to tell me what she said.

As for your "famous quotes", I can do this too:


1926 November, John Albert Macy, “Equality of Woman with Man: A Myth”[1], pages 705-706: 

And I am also proposing the development of a counter corrective movement to be called “Masculism”—lady, I thank thee for that word!—a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Men. This new movement or cult will seek to restrain the wild women from losing themselves in the woods and perhaps to help them along some desirable road.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/13/47/83/1347839d9731dc0b65a11acc6492a38a.jpg


http://cdn4.gurl.com/wp-content/gallery/sexist-quotes/todd-akin-1.jpg

http://cdn3.gurl.com/wp-content/gallery/sexist-quotes/ted-turner.jpg

http://cdn.gurl.com/wp-content/gallery/sexist-quotes/michael-caine-copy.jpg



Oh, look. Men are chauvinist pigs who want to abuse and control women. These famous people are demonstrating it with their quotes.

....Wait, or maybe I am carefully picking the examples I want, so I can somehow demonstrate that "men are evil".

Isn't it the same thing you're doing to demonstrate "feminism is evil"? If feminism is evil because of your quotes, then men are evil because of my quotes. Same difference.

LanceUppercutt
07-13-2015, 02:36 PM
....Wait, or maybe I am carefully picking the examples I want, so I can somehow demonstrate that "men are evil".

Isn't it the same thing you're doing to demonstrate "feminism is evil"? If feminism is evil because of your quotes, then men are evil because of my quotes. Same difference.

One is an ideology, the other is a sex. You can point out the flaws of feminism by highlighting its positions and arguments. ex. wage gap

LanceUppercutt
07-13-2015, 03:00 PM
here is another fun one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Harding


Harding referred to Newton's Principia Mathematica as a "rape manual" in her 1986 book "The Science Question in Feminism"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luce_Irigaray

regards E=mc2 as a "sexed equation" because she argues that "it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us".[10]

fluid mechanics is unfairly neglected because it deals with "feminine" fluids in contrast to "masculine" rigid mechanics.

SeventhArchon
07-13-2015, 03:54 PM
So, you don't even KNOW what Anita is talking about. Yet, you tell me she is a good example of what you were talking about. Despite you not really being able to tell me what she said.

As for your "famous quotes", I can do this too:


1926 November, John Albert Macy, “Equality of Woman with Man: A Myth”[1], pages 705-706: 

And I am also proposing the development of a counter corrective movement to be called “Masculism”—lady, I thank thee for that word!—a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Men. This new movement or cult will seek to restrain the wild women from losing themselves in the woods and perhaps to help them along some desirable road.

[IMG]spout of images from famous idiots



Oh, look. Men are chauvinist pigs who want to abuse and control women. These famous people are demonstrating it with their quotes.

....Wait, or maybe I am carefully picking the examples I want, so I can somehow demonstrate that "men are evil".

Isn't it the same thing you're doing to demonstrate "feminism is evil"? If feminism is evil because of your quotes, then men are evil because of my quotes. Same difference.

I have a faint memory of describing in in detail. And you know just as much if not less considering you haven't looked at it. If you want to be better, look at it and enlighten me :) It's ironic since you can't tell me anything about it either. So yes. I still know more about what I'm showing you, but I'd like to see you prove me false. You've presented Quite a few good ideas.
Yes, you've posted a good example of sexist male idiots. That is wrong and shouldn't be done nor said and definitely not an accepted standard. However, it is not an accepted standard anymore. Unlike the opposite...

LunSei
07-14-2015, 02:32 AM
I have a faint memory of describing in in detail. And you know just as much if not less considering you haven't looked at it. If you want to be better, look at it and enlighten me :) It's ironic since you can't tell me anything about it either. So yes. I still know more about what I'm showing you, but I'd like to see you prove me false. You've presented Quite a few good ideas.
Yes, you've posted a good example of sexist male idiots. That is wrong and shouldn't be done nor said and definitely not an accepted standard. However, it is not an accepted standard anymore. Unlike the opposite...



Oh, I know very well Anita Sarkeesian's stuff.
I didn't talk about it because I wanted YOU to tell me. Turns out you don't know what she talks about, and still you say she is a men-hating "feminist" that wants censorship. Please, I would like you to stop and think about this. You don't know her work but you ASSUMED she was a "feminist".

Anita talks about videogame stereotypes of women. Sometimes she grasps at straws to make things look much worse than they are, and sometimes she talks about a specific videogame without showing much knowledge of it. For this reason, I don't like Anita.
BUT.... Anita also pointed out real issues with women in videogames. And she was the only one to do so publicly, so even if she sometimes exaggerates.... a lot of the things she says are real. I would suggest you to watch her video, or just read the transcripts of them. Things are changing in videogames because she pointed those things out. Maybe she pointed them out because she cares, or maybe she pointed them out for money. But she STILL pointed them out, and the developers realized she was right, gave her an award.... and now videogames have changed.

Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Killer Instinct has female characters like Riptor or Hisako or Aria.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Horizon will have a non-objectified female protagonist.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Heroes of the Storm has female characters like Brightwing or Lili or Zagara or Johanna.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, publishers are starting to consider women can be protagonists of videogames.

And you know what is the real beauty of all this?
Killer Instinct has also Orchid, Sadira, Maya.
Heroes of the Storm has also Nova, Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Tyrande.
Female protagonists like in Horizon do not change at all the development of male protagonists.

The beauty of this change is that it adds things without removing what already was there.


Another thing I want you to consider is this: YOU are the one who thinks the main "feminism" is the fringe extremism of insane people with issues.
Listen to me, please: if I told you most men were sexist, rapist pigs, and the examples I brought you were what the majority of men are like.... wouldn't you think I was a bit insane, or at least, I had some issues?

Because this is exactly how you come off to other people when you say the majority of feminists are sexists, man-hating whores.

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 02:37 AM
Another thing I want you to consider is this: YOU are the one who thinks the main "feminism" is the fringe extremism of insane people with issues.


Because this is exactly how you come off to other people when you say the majority of feminists are sexists, man-hating whores.

so are you saying anita is an insane person with issues and not a feminist? because she and plenty of others identify her as a feminist and she promotes feminist views

so i dont see how he is wrong about any of this. Even if you do say she isnt a real feminist it is pretty telling that so many others believe she is one. That is the state of modern feminist.



Listen to me, please: if I told you most men were sexist, rapist pigs, and the examples I brought you were what the majority of men are like.... wouldn't you think I was a bit insane, or at least, I had some issues?

one is an ideology the other is a gender, so by their very nature of being a feminist it implies all of what he said

LunSei
07-14-2015, 03:29 AM
so are you saying anita is an insane person with issues and not a feminist? because she and plenty of others identify her as a feminist and she promotes feminist views

so i dont see how he is wrong about any of this. Even if you do say she isnt a real feminist it is pretty telling that so many others believe she is one. That is the state of modern feminist.




Did you even read my post? Anita is NOT an insane person with issues. Anita is a feminist. An exaggerate feminist, for sure, but still a feminist.
Feminism implies wanting better representation of genders. This is what she wants.
This is exactly what she got. I will quote myself:

[I]Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Killer Instinct has female characters like Riptor or Hisako or Aria.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Horizon will have a non-objectified female protagonist.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Heroes of the Storm has female characters like Brightwing or Lili or Zagara or Johanna.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, publishers are starting to consider women can be protagonists of videogames.

And you know what is the real beauty of all this?
Killer Instinct has also Orchid, Sadira, Maya.
Heroes of the Storm has also Nova, Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Tyrande.
Female protagonists like in Horizon do not change at all the development of male protagonists.

The beauty of this change is that it adds things without removing what already was there.


I also take big offense in your comment that the feminist ideology is "implies all what he said". Feminism is NOT about hating men. If you say feminism is about hating men, it's EXACTLY the same thing as if I said being a man is about hating women.

Feminism is about gender equality. Exactly like the changes that Sarkeesian caused in videogames. Are you fine with the changes I have just described in games like Horizon or Killer Instinct? Then, you, my friend, are a feminist.
Are you not fine with those changes in gaming? Then you, my friend, are a woman-hating sexist guy.

SeventhArchon
07-14-2015, 04:10 AM
Oh, I know very well Anita Sarkeesian's stuff.
I didn't talk about it because I wanted YOU to tell me. Turns out you don't know what she talks about, and still you say she is a men-hating "feminist" that wants censorship. Please, I would like you to stop and think about this. You don't know her work but you ASSUMED she was a "feminist".

Anita talks about videogame stereotypes of women. Sometimes she grasps at straws to make things look much worse than they are, and sometimes she talks about a specific videogame without showing much knowledge of it. For this reason, I don't like Anita.
BUT.... Anita also pointed out real issues with women in videogames. And she was the only one to do so publicly, so even if she sometimes exaggerates.... a lot of the things she says are real. I would suggest you to watch her video, or just read the transcripts of them. Things are changing in videogames because she pointed those things out. Maybe she pointed them out because she cares, or maybe she pointed them out for money. But she STILL pointed them out, and the developers realized she was right, gave her an award.... and now videogames have changed.

Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Killer Instinct has female characters like Riptor or Hisako or Aria.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Horizon will have a non-objectified female protagonist.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Heroes of the Storm has female characters like Brightwing or Lili or Zagara or Johanna.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, publishers are starting to consider women can be protagonists of videogames.

And you know what is the real beauty of all this?
Killer Instinct has also Orchid, Sadira, Maya.
Heroes of the Storm has also Nova, Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Tyrande.
Female protagonists like in Horizon do not change at all the development of male protagonists.

The beauty of this change is that it adds things without removing what already was there.


Another thing I want you to consider is this: YOU are the one who thinks the main "feminism" is the fringe extremism of insane people with issues.
Listen to me, please: if I told you most men were sexist, rapist pigs, and the examples I brought you were what the majority of men are like.... wouldn't you think I was a bit insane, or at least, I had some issues?

Because this is exactly how you come off to other people when you say the majority of feminists are sexists, man-hating whores.

I knew she was a feminist. I knew she was from FF, I knew she was trying to censor gaming. I just didn't remember which quotes were from her but I knew what she was on. But let's not go Word catching:
I'll post this link a third time. Tell me about these quotes. The ones you love to avoid so much:
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Havent-Lost-My-Virginity/1269918 I'll post them in every reply and assume denial if you avoid them.
And by the way - no, I wouldn't think you were insane if you thought most men were evil. I would think you're a feminist - the bad case.
The bad feminists don't need to be insane at all. Sanity and not being complete scum are different things.

LunSei
07-14-2015, 05:04 AM
I knew she was a feminist. I knew she was from FF, I knew she was trying to censor gaming. I just didn't remember which quotes were from her but I knew what she was on. But let's not go Word catching:
I'll post this link a third time. Tell me about these quotes. The ones you love to avoid so much:
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Havent-Lost-My-Virginity/1269918 I'll post them in every reply and assume denial if you avoid them.



Are you in denial about the quotes I have posted, too?

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-misogynist-a-man-who-hates-women-as-much-as-women-hate-one-another-h-l-mencken-252593.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGfiSVm7lV_sHKOa-i5oJcRVqp_qdz1B7jcMwkPro8K_XIrYpl

http://cdn3.gurl.com/wp-content/gallery/sexist-quotes/ted-turner.jpg

http://cdn4.gurl.com/wp-content/gallery/sexist-quotes/todd-akin-1.jpg


Please, explain me how you can completely dismiss these quotes as "eh, they're just morons, it doesn't mean men are like this"..... but somehow you do not allow me to say "eh, they're just morons, it doesn't mean feminists are like this".

You can keep showing me quotes of so-called feminists. I can keep showing you quotes of so-called men. If you dismiss those sexist comments by people, I can dismiss the manhating comments by people too.



And by the way - no, I wouldn't think you were insane if you thought most men were evil. I would think you're a feminist - the bad case.


And by the way - no, I wouldn't think you were insane if you thought most women were evil. I would think you're a man - the bad case.

How does it feel, mh? How does it feel?

And you're now ignoring my comment about Anita. Let me repeat it again.

Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Killer Instinct has female characters like Riptor or Hisako or Aria.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Horizon will have a non-objectified female protagonist.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Heroes of the Storm has female characters like Brightwing or Lili or Zagara or Johanna.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, publishers are starting to consider women can be protagonists of videogames.

And you know what is the real beauty of all this?
Killer Instinct has also Orchid, Sadira, Maya.
Heroes of the Storm has also Nova, Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Tyrande.
Female protagonists like in Horizon do not change at all the development of male protagonists.

The beauty of this change is that it adds things without removing what already was there.


Are you against it? Are you pissed that there has been this change? Are you angry that videogames have sexy, provocative, beautiful women AND also other kinds of female characters now?

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 08:19 AM
Did you even read my post? Anita is NOT an insane person with issues. Anita is a feminist. An exaggerate feminist, for sure, but still a feminist.
Feminism implies wanting better representation of genders. This is what she wants.
This is exactly what she got. I will quote myself:

oh good, so a feminist that thinks violent video games causes violent behavior and makes people sexist towards women, that female characters are objects since they are acted upon but male characters aren't

oh, and this is great
http://i.imgur.com/iApi3bB.png

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585?lang=en

and you are surprised when people think feminism isn't about equality?





I also take big offense in your comment that the feminist ideology is "implies all what he said". Feminism is NOT about hating men. If you say feminism is about hating men, it's EXACTLY the same thing as if I said being a man is about hating women..

nope, as I said multiple times, feminism is an ideology
"The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, a group, a class, or a culture. A system of beliefs or theories, usually political, held by an individual or a group."

the other is a sex
"either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions."

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 08:20 AM
Here is some more of your completely sane feminist

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0wDBHtCYAAbXnd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6uZw43CMAEmuaA.jpg

SeventhArchon
07-14-2015, 08:39 AM
Are you in denial about the quotes I have posted, too?





Please, explain me how you can completely dismiss these quotes as "eh, they're just morons, it doesn't mean men are like this"..... but somehow you do not allow me to say "eh, they're just morons, it doesn't mean feminists are like this".

You can keep showing me quotes of so-called feminists. I can keep showing you quotes of so-called men. If you dismiss those sexist comments by people, I can dismiss the manhating comments by people too.



And by the way - no, I wouldn't think you were insane if you thought most women were evil. I would think you're a man - the bad case.

How does it feel, mh? How does it feel?

And you're now ignoring my comment about Anita. Let me repeat it again.
[I]
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Killer Instinct has female characters like Riptor or Hisako or Aria.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Horizon will have a non-objectified female protagonist.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, Heroes of the Storm has female characters like Brightwing or Lili or Zagara or Johanna.
Thanks to all the noise Anita made, publishers are starting to consider women can be protagonists of videogames.

And you know what is the real beauty of all this?
Killer Instinct has also Orchid, Sadira, Maya.
Heroes of the Storm has also Nova, Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Tyrande.
Female protagonists like in Horizon do not change at all the development of male protagonists.

The beauty of this change is that it adds things without removing what already was there.


Are you against it? Are you pissed that there has been this change? Are you angry that videogames have sexy, provocative, beautiful women AND also other kinds of female characters now?

Yes, those men are idiots(assuming seriousness). No, men are not like this. Yes, FF is stupid. No, women are not like that. Only radical feminists.
I like ugly females in video games because of diversity. I've told you that.
Are you implying there are 2 genders - man and feminist? I keep talking about feminists, you say "yes, you're a bad man". There's a reason why I'm bashing feminists here, not women. Women aren't necessarily feminists, and I appreciate every woman that knows when is the time to abandon the vehicle that turned the wrong way.
Thanks to the noise some radical feminists made (I don't want to bash Anita too much. She's a single woman and not the driving force behind radical feminism.), many things were scrapped for alleged "oppressive nature", etc. More harm than good, that's it.
I don't have a problem with the things Anita did that you listed. I thank LanceUppercutt for saving me the effort and providing the bad examples to you.
Also a thought to consider:
Maybe #1 of the quotes and #3 were joking, and #2 might have been just badly worded because of "in many areas" -> implying he might not mean overall dominance/equal position.

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 08:46 AM
Thanks to the noise some radical feminists made (I don't want to bash Anita too much. She's a single woman and not the driving force behind radical feminism.), many things were scrapped for alleged "oppressive nature", etc. More harm than good, that's it.
I don't have a problem with the things Anita did that you listed. I thank LanceUppercutt for saving me the effort and providing the bad examples to you.

No problem, It is troubling to see that this radical feminism has gone mainstream with many universities providing degrees in womens/gender studies that promote the same ideas.

LunSei
07-14-2015, 12:34 PM
While Anita is too provocatory, as usual, the intent of what she is saying is correct even if she goes so extreme that she becomes unlikeable.
Whenever you think a quote is odd, please replace sexism with racism.
"Racism towards white people is impossible". Which is true. A single person can be racist towards a white person, yes. But society as a whole? There's no racism towards white people. Same thing applies to being sexist towards men.

You two guys are trying to promote the idea that feminism is a bad thing. Please, once more, replace it with racial equality.
Imagine if I were trying to say that racial equality is bad because most people who promote racial equality actually hate white people.
Because of this, people should never call themselves promoters of racial equality, because that word is an insult.

Now perhaps you understand the insanity you are promoting. Or, who knows, maybe you not only have a problem with women wishing equality, maybe you also have a problem with races wishing equality.

Incidentally, why the sexist quotes I have posted can "have been misinterpreted", but the quotes YOU posted are to be taken 100% for sure?

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 01:20 PM
While Anita is too provocatory, as usual, the intent of what she is saying is correct even if she goes so extreme that she becomes unlikeable.
Whenever you think a quote is odd, please replace sexism with racism.

even when you do that you get the same result ex. saying racism = prejudice + power


"Racism towards white people is impossible". Which is true.
that is incorrect, it is very much possible to be racist to white people whether it be an individual or society as a whole

to think otherwise, is actually racist since you are arguing that a non white society cant do what white people can simply because of their race.


You two guys are trying to promote the idea that feminism is a bad thing. Please, once more, replace it with racial equality.
Imagine if I were trying to say that racial equality is bad because most people who promote racial equality actually hate white people.
Because of this, people should never call themselves promoters of racial equality, because that word is an insult

If there was an ideology called "racial equalism" that centered its views around ideas like supporting giving academic and financial advantages to people of one race over another or things like

"Racism towards white people is impossible". Which is true.
then yes, I would consider this "racial equalism" group to be bad and use it as an insult

just because you call a group racial equalism doesnt mean they actually support racial equality, this is the same case with feminism

LunSei
07-14-2015, 02:00 PM
I appreciate the fact we can keep on this discussion without it becoming a flame war. Kinda rare on the internet, especially with a topic like this one.

About my comparison with racism: yes, racism towards white people can exist, as racist towards anyone can exist. The difference is that, since we live in a white-centered society, our culture doesn't have a background of racism towards white people. HISTORY ITSELF does not have a background of racism towards white people.
A white guy can't possibly tell a black guy he feels the issue of racism towards white people. Centuries of our history made things different.

Same goes for sexism. It is definitely possible to be sexist towards men, and it happens. But we live in a culture, and we have centuries of history, of a male-dominated society.
A man can't possibly tell a woman he feels the issue of sexism towards men. Centuries of our history made things different.

Many people are racist towards minorities. Racism towards white people is almost unexistant by comparison. Same goes for sexism.

Now, about the main issue: why I hate the fact that this thread is trying to promote feminism as a bad word? Because if people were to turn racial equality into an insult, how would we call racial equality?
A well-meaning person who wants racial equality for real would be insulted, would be considered someone who hates white people. Soon, ALL OF RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED BAD, BECAUSE EVEN ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT REAL RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE FRINGE MOVEMENT WHO HATES WHITE PEOPLE. AND THEREFORE, PEOPLE WHO WANT RACIAL EQUALITY WILL STOP WANTING RACIAL EQUALITY BECAUSE THE WORD IS NOW ASSOCIATED WITH A BAD THING.

So please, stop what you are doing. Yes, of course you can find man-hating mad women. But please, even if they call themselves feminists, do NOT call them like that. Or it would be the same thing as saying that a man who claims white people are inferior is a man who wants racial equality.

SeventhArchon
07-14-2015, 02:14 PM
While Anita is too provocatory, as usual, the intent of what she is saying is correct even if she goes so extreme that she becomes unlikeable.
Whenever you think a quote is odd, please replace sexism with racism.
"Racism towards white people is impossible". Which is true. A single person can be racist towards a white person, yes. But society as a whole? There's no racism towards white people. Same thing applies to being sexist towards men.

You two guys are trying to promote the idea that feminism is a bad thing. Please, once more, replace it with racial equality.
Imagine if I were trying to say that racial equality is bad because most people who promote racial equality actually hate white people.
Because of this, people should never call themselves promoters of racial equality, because that word is an insult.

Now perhaps you understand the insanity you are promoting. Or, who knows, maybe you not only have a problem with women wishing equality, maybe you also have a problem with races wishing equality.

Incidentally, why the sexist quotes I have posted can "have been misinterpreted", but the quotes YOU posted are to be taken 100% for sure?

If you're talking about the word feminist itself, it's considered by some (I don't really consider the word itself an insult though) an insult because of the fact that the name implies inequality on its own. If they said "wow you're as dumb as an equality supporter (which feminists say they are)" it probably would sound more ridiculous than insulting.
Racism against white people is very much possible and sometimes even happening. A group's mindset can be hateful towards any kind of group, it's just not global yet. I can't really speak about my direct experiences with racism though, because I'm a white guy in a city of a Slavic country (where seeing black people is a rarity outside of tourists). But in the media we see Quite a bit of it mentioned. Outside of the cities, we have Gypsy villages. Many whites are racist against the gypsies, but the gypsies often tend to be racist against the whites as well. The reception? Whites are brought to attention more than the Gypsies because the white generally "live better". With racism here though, it's not as bad. With feminists it's a lot worse, because you often see a woman who's dominant in society be victimized by feminists. They'll victimize themselves and keep their dominance with no regard to any dignity.. With racism it hasn't come this far yet. With feminists the women in the civilized world are often dominant and victimized. Again, not everywhere, not even in all the civilized world.
I'm all for equality. So there's no actual insanity involved.
As for the quotes, I'm pretty certain some of mine can also be misinterpreted. I think you just provided a bad source of "sexist quotes".
-
To clarify it a little bit:
You have two people: The dominant and the victimized. Both have different benefits to themselves.
With racism it's mostly the dominant white and the victimized minority.
With feminists it's mostly the dominant and victimized feminist reaping both benefits leaving the other party nothing at all.

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 02:15 PM
A white guy can't possibly tell a black guy he feels the issue of racism towards white people. Centuries of our history made things different.
yes he can, the past doesn't prevent racism against white people in the present.



Same goes for sexism. It is definitely possible to be sexist towards men, and it happens. But we live in a culture, and we have centuries of history, of a male-dominated society.
A man can't possibly tell a woman he feels the issue of sexism towards men. Centuries of our history made things different.

same as above


Now, about the main issue: why I hate the fact that this thread is trying to promote feminism as a bad word? Because if people were to turn racial equality into an insult, how would we call racial equality?

through another word with similar meaning, ex. egal


A well-meaning person who wants racial equality for real would be insulted, would be considered someone who hates white people.

Soon, ALL OF RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED BAD, BECAUSE EVEN ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT REAL RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE FRINGE MOVEMENT WHO HATES WHITE PEOPLE. AND THEREFORE, PEOPLE WHO WANT RACIAL EQUALITY WILL STOP WANTING RACIAL EQUALITY BECAUSE THE WORD IS NOW ASSOCIATED WITH A BAD THING.

only if he goes under that label, in this case lets say it is called "racial equalist" over another like egalitarian


So please, stop what you are doing. Yes, of course you can find man-hating mad women. But please, even if they call themselves feminists, do NOT call them like that. Or it would be the same thing as saying that a man who claims white people are inferior is a man who wants racial equality.

sorry, feminism has changed in meaning and it should be degraded and looked down upon because of the arguments and views it currently promotes. If they want equality they can call themselves egalitarians and avoid that negative connotation. At least until the egalitarian ideology moves away from equality

SeventhArchon
07-14-2015, 02:27 PM
I appreciate the fact we can keep on this discussion without it becoming a flame war. Kinda rare on the internet, especially with a topic like this one.
I appreciate it very much. Especially given the previous derailments and flame wars that you could find (along with a few gems though) scattered around the first pages.
About my comparison with racism: yes, racism towards white people can exist, as racist towards anyone can exist. The difference is that, since we live in a white-centered society, our culture doesn't have a background of racism towards white people. HISTORY ITSELF does not have a background of racism towards white people.
It can come and it will be just as bad if it will.
A white guy can't possibly tell a black guy he feels the issue of racism towards white people. Centuries of our history made things different.
Yes, that's just insensitive to tell it.
Same goes for sexism. It is definitely possible to be sexist towards men, and it happens. But we live in a culture, and we have centuries of history, of a male-dominated society.
A man can't possibly tell a woman he feels the issue of sexism towards men. Centuries of our history made things different.
He can now in certain areas. I think it mostly applies to the US.
Many people are racist towards minorities. Racism towards white people is almost unexistant by comparison. Same goes for sexism.
If you lived where I live (see: the gypsies) you'd know how false that is. However, the victimized one in this case is not the dominant one, but the other. With feminists, it's not that way. Explained above.
Now, about the main issue: why I hate the fact that this thread is trying to promote feminism as a bad word?
The thread itself is neutral. As the OP of this thread, I made it mostly to enlighten myself and others on what the feminists think and how they react to arguments from a non-feminist, and to spark some interesting discussion.
Because if people were to turn racial equality into an insult, how would we call racial equality?
A name which doesn't contradict its supposed intentions.
A well-meaning person who wants racial equality for real would be insulted, would be considered someone who hates white people. Soon, ALL OF RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED BAD, BECAUSE EVEN ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT REAL RACIAL EQUALITY WOULD BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE FRINGE MOVEMENT WHO HATES WHITE PEOPLE. AND THEREFORE, PEOPLE WHO WANT RACIAL EQUALITY WILL STOP WANTING RACIAL EQUALITY BECAUSE THE WORD IS NOW ASSOCIATED WITH A BAD THING.
I think that if a black person says "I want racial equality for all races because we're all human and no one is inferior by color of skin or their ancestry" the reception will be a lot better than when he says "DOWN WITH THE EVIL WHITE OPPRESSION RACE". And for a good reason.
So please, stop what you are doing. Yes, of course you can find man-hating mad women. But please, even if they call themselves feminists, do NOT call them like that. Or it would be the same thing as saying that a man who claims white people are inferior is a man who wants racial equality.

I usually call them radical feminists to differentiate from the general feminist who I believe is often just a misguided person.





through another word with similar meaning, ex. egal




Yes. Several times in this thread I've said that I'm egalitarian. The name itself implies equality, unlike the word "feminism".

Astraous
07-14-2015, 02:59 PM
I usually call them radical feminists to differentiate from the general feminist who I believe is often just a misguided person.


Yes. Several times in this thread I've said that I'm egalitarian. The name itself implies equality, unlike the word "feminism".

Yeah, one of my best friends is a feminist, and at first it sounded a bit odd. I was never one for social justice, so I was ill-informed on the movement, I just knew it existed. But from the videos I had seen where the feminists protest, and from the tweets and videos I had seen featuring Anita Sarkeeessianasn(*), I kind of just assumed it was a women's power movement. When she told me it was an equality movement and what her views were, I couldn't agree more with her - but we both disagreed with these radical and really quite vocal feminists. It really seems that the movement, if its original goal was equality, is branching away from its roots because of the radical examples the media has. If the movement were to be 'reborn' as an egalitarian movement, I think it might be accepted a lot more and have a better first impression than the current feminist movement.

I say this only because the first thing a lot of people think of when they hear or think about 'feminism' nowadays are the extreme examples, and those examples happen to be very prominent in the movement. It's not the best thing to hear about a movement and the first thing you think of are the hundreds of fallacious claims that its prominent (or perhaps the right word is 'vocal') figures have made.

Edit: And this isn't to say that EVERYTHING Anita says is fallacious, she does make a fair few good points, but she also makes connections between things that simply don't make sense, further victimizing women and shaming this 'toxic masculinity'.

LanceUppercutt
07-14-2015, 03:41 PM
Yeah, one of my best friends is a feminist, and at first it sounded a bit odd. I was never one for social justice, so I was ill-informed on the movement, I just knew it existed. But from the videos I had seen where the feminists protest, and from the tweets and videos I had seen featuring Anita Sarkeeessianasn(*), I kind of just assumed it was a women's power movement. When she told me it was an equality movement and what her views were, I couldn't agree more with her - but we both disagreed with these radical and really quite vocal feminists. It really seems that the movement, if its original goal was equality, is branching away from its roots because of the radical examples the media has. If the movement were to be 'reborn' as an egalitarian movement, I think it might be accepted a lot more and have a better first impression than the current feminist movement.

I say this only because the first thing a lot of people think of when they hear or think about 'feminism' nowadays are the extreme examples, and those examples happen to be very prominent in the movement. It's not the best thing to hear about a movement and the first thing you think of are the hundreds of fallacious claims that its prominent (or perhaps the right word is 'vocal') figures have made.

Edit: And this isn't to say that EVERYTHING Anita says is fallacious, she does make a fair few good points, but she also makes connections between things that simply don't make sense, further victimizing women and shaming this 'toxic masculinity'.

it isnt even a small group of radical feminists anymore, womens studies and gender studies classes teach the very same things

LunSei
07-15-2015, 03:01 AM
The thread itself is neutral. As the OP of this thread, I made it mostly to enlighten myself and others on what the feminists think and how they react to arguments from a non-feminist, and to spark some interesting discussion.


The title of this thread, and browsing through it, gave me a different impression. It made me feel as if this really was, and still is, a thread about wether feminism is a good or a bad thing. FEMINISM IS A GOOD THING. PEOPLE WHO HATE MEN AND USE THE WORD "FEMINISM" TO JUSTIFY IT ARE NOT FEMINISTS!!

More than a feminist, I am a huge animals right activist.
Insane fuckers like PETA are ruining it all, making it seem as if people who care about animal rights are some kind of psychopaths. PETA, as you will know, kill more animals than they save them. Yet, we hear much, muuuuch more talk about PETA than about real groups who help animals, because PETA does so much insane stuff that the news report them and never report the real animal right activist, since the real ones do not do news-worthy insane stuff. The result is that people will start to think that animal rights activists act like PETA. THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH FEMINISM!!!

So stop and consider this.

Dalzaar
07-15-2015, 03:43 AM
The title of this thread, and browsing through it, gave me a different impression. It made me feel as if this really was, and still is, a thread about wether feminism is a good or a bad thing. FEMINISM IS A GOOD THING. PEOPLE WHO HATE MEN AND USE THE WORD "FEMINISM" TO JUSTIFY IT ARE NOT FEMINISTS!!

More than a feminist, I am a huge animals right activist.
Insane fuckers like PETA are ruining it all, making it seem as if people who care about animal rights are some kind of psychopaths. PETA, as you will know, kill more animals than they save them. Yet, we hear much, muuuuch more talk about PETA than about real groups who help animals, because PETA does so much insane stuff that the news report them and never report the real animal right activist, since the real ones do not do news-worthy insane stuff. The result is that people will start to think that animal rights activists act like PETA. THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH FEMINISM!!!

So stop and consider this.

You have a good point

The silent part of feminism needs to speak up and against these loud misandrist harpies to make the world know that feminism is something other than manhating,victim-complex and patriarchy conspiracies.I used to call myself a feminist years ago but when I saw what a majority of the popular feminist were talking about....I stopped calling myself a feminist in a hurry.These days I consider myself egalitarian.

I really think there should be a common term for these misnadrists that call themselves feminists....as much as I hate the man,Rush Limbaugh did coin the term "Feminazi" and I do think that it is pretty fitting name for these extremists who bring a bad name to proper feminists.


Oh and I do agree on your opinion about PETA.

SeventhArchon
07-15-2015, 04:21 AM
The title of this thread, and browsing through it, gave me a different impression. It made me feel as if this really was, and still is, a thread about wether feminism is a good or a bad thing. FEMINISM IS A GOOD THING. PEOPLE WHO HATE MEN AND USE THE WORD "FEMINISM" TO JUSTIFY IT ARE NOT FEMINISTS!!
Exactly, it's a discussion. Which is neutral. If it only was saying Feminism: Road to equality it would not be neutral.
More than a feminist, I am a huge animals right activist.
Insane fuckers like PETA are ruining it all, making it seem as if people who care about animal rights are some kind of psychopaths. PETA, as you will know, kill more animals than they save them. Yet, we hear much, muuuuch more talk about PETA than about real groups who help animals, because PETA does so much insane stuff that the news report them and never report the real animal right activist, since the real ones do not do news-worthy insane stuff. The result is that people will start to think that animal rights activists act like PETA. THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH FEMINISM!!!
I'm not very involved in animal rights and stuff but I've seen PETA do some stupid shock value campaigns, so I'll let you have this part.
So stop and consider this.
Animal rights haven't gone as far as to privilege the ones they victimize. If they ever do, they could be relevant to the topic.

You have a good point

The silent part of feminism needs to speak up and against these loud misandrist harpies to make the world know that feminism is something other than manhating,victim-complex and patriarchy conspiracies.I used to call myself a feminist years ago but when I saw what a majority of the popular feminist were talking about....I stopped calling myself a feminist in a hurry.These days I consider myself egalitarian.

I really think there should be a common term for these misnadrists that call themselves feminists....as much as I hate the man,Rush Limbaugh did coin the term "Feminazi" and I do think that it is pretty fitting name for these extremists who bring a bad name to proper feminists.


Oh and I do agree on your opinion about PETA.

The problem is that the silent part of feminism is already deceived by the vocal part, while the silent part may say they want equality, it's probably not real equality rather a distorted image presented by the ones in charge.
That's why I'm egalitarian, to be uninhibited by this in-fighting and going for equality by focusing on both sides of the issue.

LunSei
07-15-2015, 05:08 AM
Oh no, the comparison with animal rights and PETA is very appropriate.
See how Dalzaar is afraid of calling himself a feminist. People like you, SeventhArchon, and people like those misandrists you quoted, worked together in turning feminism into an insult. Half of them used the word feminist for misandrist, and the other half (like you) believed them.

Now, feminism, a word as positive as racial rights, has become an offensive term. And I will repeat it again: people will stop wanting equality because the term feminism is now associated with bad things. Good job, everyone.

A last note I wish to make: do people like you, SeventhArcon, REALLY think those fringe extremist misandrist nutcases will get their way? Do you REALLY believe it? If so, you are about as detached from reality as they are.
Why worrying about something that will NEVER happen anyway?

Dalzaar
07-15-2015, 05:54 AM
Unfortunately LunSei,these misandrist extremists have gotten their way too much already from the looks of it.

Also I took the term egalitarian because why take a title that is one gender(feminism is one and masculism is the other) when you can take a title that is for both genders.

I do hope that the media finally stops giving these extremists what they want and instead gives them what they need: to be called out as a hate mob.

SeventhArchon
07-15-2015, 06:28 AM
Oh no, the comparison with animal rights and PETA is very appropriate.
See how Dalzaar is afraid of calling himself a feminist. People like you, SeventhArchon, and people like those misandrists you quoted, worked together in turning feminism into an insult. Half of them used the word feminist for misandrist, and the other half (like you) believed them.



I'd take my hat off and give the won debate to you if it wasn't for one thing: I am also talking about egalitarianism. A movement that doesn't get involved in these things, but supports equality.
I'm not trying to make feminist an insult, I'm trying to split the bad part and the good.
Split the radical feminists and the egalitarians. So the egalitarians will have a better reception and more acceptance than the feminists of today (because they're mixed in with the bad ones), and the radical feminist ridiculous propaganda can be dismissed without hurting the good people.
Now, feminism, a word as positive as racial rights, has become an offensive term. And I will repeat it again: people will stop wanting equality because the term feminism is now associated with bad things. Good job, everyone.
Maybe they'll want equality that doesn't contradict itself with its own name. That's another thing hurting today's good feminists: They're too focused on women. Their name and image supports this as well.
A last note I wish to make: do people like you, SeventhArcon, REALLY think those fringe extremist misandrist nutcases will get their way? Do you REALLY believe it? If so, you are about as detached from reality as they are.
Why worrying about something that will NEVER happen anyway?If more people like you join feminism no matter what it is and support the cause, they may. They're slowly getting more and more and they'll never stop on their own. Depends on how extremist things you mean. Some things will never pass, some things have passed already (see: the dominant victimized).
I'll give you that there are things which are ridiculous to think will pass (like the absolute removal of necessity for men for example).
Don't waste your time and effort trying to turn people against me. It doesn't work.

Unfortunately LunSei,these misandrist extremists have gotten their way too much already from the looks of it.

Also I took the term egalitarian because why take a title that is one gender(feminism is one and masculism is the other) when you can take a title that is for both genders.

I do hope that the media finally stops giving these extremists what they want and instead gives them what they need: to be called out as a hate mob.
The real issue here is: Not all of feminism is a hate mob and there should be a way to split the hate mob and the supporter of equality. That's where egalitarianism comes in to take in the good ones.

LunSei
07-15-2015, 08:06 AM
The real issue here is: Not all of feminism is a hate mob and there should be a way to split the hate mob and the supporter of equality. That's where egalitarianism comes in to take in the good ones.


Surely you understand that, the way you phrase it, it clearly seems as if you believe most feminists are man-hating fanatics, and there are just a few "good ones" that "can be taken in".

It's the other way around. The huge majority of people who love animals aren't PETA madmen. The huge majority of people who think all races are equal aren't white-hating nutcases. The huge majority of people who strive for equality aren't man-hating psychos.

You, however, are implying the opposite. "Feminism is mostly a movement about hating men". I kept repeating you again and again and again that it's not, and I've tried to explain you why with comparisons. I am now tired of repeating myself. You wish to believe feminism nowadays is about hating men? You know what - feel free to do that, and see how it works out for you.

While you are busy hating feminism and wondering how many feminists don't want equality but are misandrist hags, -I- will be busy working for equal rights and equal duties, so that both genders have the same amount of freedom and respect.
If you wished for equality, like you claimed, you would spend more time working for equality than hating towards those who misuse it.

SeventhArchon
07-15-2015, 08:10 AM
Surely you understand that, the way you phrase it, it clearly seems as if you believe most feminists are man-hating fanatics, and there are just a few "good ones" that "can be taken in".

It's the other way around. The huge majority of people who love animals aren't PETA madmen. The huge majority of people who think all races are equal aren't white-hating nutcases. The huge majority of people who strive for equality aren't man-hating psychos.

You, however, are implying the opposite. "Feminism is mostly a movement about hating men". I kept repeating you again and again and again that it's not, and I've tried to explain you why with comparisons. I am now tired of repeating myself. You wish to believe feminism nowadays is about hating men? You know what - feel free to do that, and see how it works out for you.

While you are busy hating feminism and wondering how many feminists don't want equality but are misandrist hags, -I- will be busy working for equal rights and equal duties, so that both genders have the same amount of freedom and respect.
If you wished for equality, like you claimed, you would spend more time working for equality than hating towards those who misuse it.

Link me to your projects for equality then. I'd like to see what you've done...
I didn't give a number how many feminists are bad and how many are good. No one knows that. Not even you. You think you do, I'll admit that I don't.
Feminism is still controlled by the bad ones no matter how few they are.

LunSei
07-15-2015, 10:02 AM
Link me to your projects for equality then. I'd like to see what you've done...


Oh, you are right, I am not a politician! It's even the small, little things, you know? For example, trying to make people understand feminism is about equality. Praising and publicizing a videogame that has variety in female characters. Why do you think I keep wasting my time in this thread? It's another small, little thing I do in an attempt to make things better.

Speaking of Smite, I once also made this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/2lkh2w/the_female_character_designs_in_smite_and_how/

Granted, I too used to be aggressive in my views. I understood later that being aggressive just makes some people misunderstand your intentions.




I didn't give a number how many feminists are bad and how many are good. No one knows that. Not even you. You think you do, I'll admit that I don't.
Feminism is still controlled by the bad ones no matter how few they are.


Consider this: first you say you admitted you don't know how many feminists are bad. Immediately after, however, you said you know for a fact that feminism is "controlled by the bad ones".
Nobody is controlling feminism, you know. Feminism is just an opinion: the opinion that men and women are equals.

I will say it one last time: do you honestly worry that what you call "feminists" are going to take anything away from you? If so, I am sorry. Go on, keep being afraid of women. Keep making threads about how you are worried and scared about feminism because it's a secret movement lead by "bad ones". You will find people who support you, because the internet is big, you can find people who will support anything.
If a few insane women can apparently find other women who support their view that men are evil, you too can find others who think feminism is a dangerous movement against men.

SeventhArchon
07-15-2015, 11:22 AM
Oh, you are right, I am not a politician! It's even the small, little things, you know? For example, trying to make people understand feminism is about equality. Praising and publicizing a videogame that has variety in female characters. Why do you think I keep wasting my time in this thread? It's another small, little thing I do in an attempt to make things better.
So you're criticizing me for being redundant while you do just as much? Sweet mother of irony.
Speaking of Smite, I once also made this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/2lkh2w/the_female_character_designs_in_smite_and_how/

Granted, I too used to be aggressive in my views. I understood later that being aggressive just makes some people misunderstand your intentions.





Consider this: first you say you admitted you don't know how many feminists are bad. Immediately after, however, you said you know for a fact that feminism is "controlled by the bad ones".
Nobody is controlling feminism, you know.
I don't know how many the bad ones are. But they control it. Those things don't cancel each other.
Feminism is just an opinion: the opinion that men and women are equals.
Feminism is a movement. Not only a belief system, it's organized and therefore there will be people who are more influential/important than others.
I will say it one last time: do you honestly worry that what you call "feminists" are going to take anything away from you? If so, I am sorry.I don't. An internet feminist like you is entirely harmless. Go on, keep being afraid of women. I love women and I'm not afraid of them by the reason that they are rational human beings as well equal to us men and I don't suffer from panophobia.Keep making threads about how you are worried and scared about feminism because it's a secret movement lead by "bad ones". You will find people who support you, because the internet is big, you can find people who will support anything.Even radical feminism.
If a few insane women can apparently find other women who support their view that men are evil, you too can find others who think feminism is a dangerous movement against men.I don't even need to search.

I don't worry for myself seeing as I'll probably be unaffected for the most part either way. It's in human nature to care about the society so why not take a stand, however small, against a supposed "equality movement" led by people that want to steal privileges and trample equality? And an internet feminist like you likely on the other half of the world will not affect me anyhow in real life. Don't delude yourself into thinking you've imposed anything onto me.

LanceUppercutt
07-15-2015, 11:23 AM
If a few insane women

problem is, that it isnt a few of them, it is widespread with universities across the world promoting their ideology through womens and gender studies classes

LunSei
07-15-2015, 01:26 PM
I don't worry for myself seeing as I'll probably be unaffected for the most part either way. It's in human nature to care about the society so why not take a stand, however small, against a supposed "equality movement" led by people that want to steal privileges and trample equality? And an internet feminist like you likely on the other half of the world will not affect me anyhow in real life. Don't delude yourself into thinking you've imposed anything onto me.


Oh, I knew from the beginning that you weren't gonna change your mind. I am just amused to see the long-winded justifications you come up with to answer my very direct questions.

For example, here's some more questions I want you to answer.

1) Have you still not stopped to consider that you were against Anita Sarkeesian WITHOUT ACTUALLY KNOWING WHAT SHE TALKS ABOUT? How do you feel about this? You trusted some internet opinion without actually stopping and reading Anita's work yourself.

2) You admitted you do not know how many "feminists" of the man-hating kind are. Then how can you know they are the leaders? And who are they? And how do you know they are the LEADERS of an entire socio-political movement?

3) I am a feminist. I think I made my point clear: what I want is equality. Men and women are equally awesome, and should both be respected for their awesomeness. If a woman wants to become a soldier she should not be prevented it because it's a "man's job". On the other hand, men should be free to use cosmetics if they like, and do any job they like without being considered "unmanly"because they prefer classic dance to football. So here is my question: if I am not what you call a "feminist", what should I call myself?

4) How can you be sure that most feminists are like you say and not like me, if you yourself admitted you don't know? How can you find the data? Could it not be just like I said: that the only reason you think most feminists are man-hating is because the fringe, insane guys are the ones that make good news for the media? Just like with PETA? Just like journals report a black guy who steals, not a black guy who is an excellent neurosurgeon?

SeventhArchon
07-15-2015, 02:56 PM
Oh, I knew from the beginning that you weren't gonna change your mind. I am just amused to see the long-winded justifications you come up with to answer my very direct questions.

For example, here's some more questions I want you to answer.

1) Have you still not stopped to consider that you were against Anita Sarkeesian WITHOUT ACTUALLY KNOWING WHAT SHE TALKS ABOUT? How do you feel about this? You trusted some internet opinion without actually stopping and reading Anita's work yourself.
I told you several times I had read her work but couldn't connect it to her. I've looked back, made the connections, and she's had lots of bad ideas though also had good ideas. I've addressed it, scroll back.
2) You admitted you do not know how many "feminists" of the man-hating kind are. Then how can you know they are the leaders? And who are they? And how do you know they are the LEADERS of an entire socio-political movement?
Why would I need their amount or name to know that feminism is fed that distorted image of equality?
3) I am a feminist. I think I made my point clear: what I want is equality. Men and women are equally awesome, and should both be respected for their awesomeness. If a woman wants to become a soldier she should not be prevented it because it's a "man's job". On the other hand, men should be free to use cosmetics if they like, and do any job they like without being considered "unmanly"because they prefer classic dance to football. So here is my question: if I am not what you call a "feminist", what should I call myself?
Egalitarian. What you've presented in this part is a good egalitarian idea.
4) How can you be sure that most feminists are like you say and not like me, if you yourself admitted you don't know? How can you find the data? Could it not be just like I said: that the only reason you think most feminists are man-hating is because the fringe, insane guys are the ones that make good news for the media? Just like with PETA? Just like journals report a black guy who steals, not a black guy who is an excellent neurosurgeon?
Again, I haven't said most. I don't know their number and it's irrelevant. What's relevant is how important they are. If people who wanted equality led feminism this thread would not exist and I'd be on your side. Consider that.
Do you live in the US? If yes, I don't know your media very well. So it may be that your media is taking a different approach.

RippleApple
07-15-2015, 09:45 PM
Basically

Feminists are like Batman

When there's a bunch of evil motherf-ers around, you want them to come and save the day

But when he's repeatedly smashing in the face of a jaywalker, you just kinda want him caught and thrown in jail

ImAeternalis
07-16-2015, 12:47 AM
Lunsei, I would have replied in a massive post to you but I asked to be banned for a week, so I'll just say all I can say as simple as possible:

You're making a fool of yourself. The fact that you support someone as stupid and biased as Sarkeesian speaks for itself.

Your 'projects for equality' are complaints about the most trite, boring, and frankly silly parts of any game.

LunSei
07-16-2015, 05:27 AM
SeventhArchon, please look back at your own replies: you can't give me any name. You don't know what you are talking about, yet you say those things are true. You can't tell me who are the so-called leaders of the feminism movement, yet you say the leaders are man-hating people. You can't tell me how many and who are the feminists who supposedly hate men, yet you say most feminists hate men. Please consider this carefully, because this is the last time I repeat myself.

You made a good point about Anita, and I appreciate it: she says many stupid things, but she also raises many valid points. I don't like Anita, I don't support her, but I appreciate that at least she managed to raise a very valid issue among her exagerations. Besides, Anita might certainly not be a likeable person, but people who wish her death are much, much less likeable than her. They don't understand that by acting like that they certainly make it look as if she is right.

RippleApple also makes a good point, in a way. :P

ImAeternalis, I think you made a typo in your post, but I certainly hope you're not trying to have me banned for expressing my opinion in a civil discussion. XD

Agent2090
07-16-2015, 07:55 AM
If this was 50 years ago and I held the same views I do now, I would be a feminist. Today, however, modern feminists have tainted the term. It now is a movement to elevate women above men, rather than be equal to men. It means lowering standards so women can meet them, rather than women rising up to the standards. It means being angry at anyone with a penis unless the owner of that penis believes himself inferior to women. It means believing women that don't subscribe to feminism are brainwashed by the "patriarchy".

I subscribe to equality, I am vehemently against modern feminism. This gives me the label of "misogynist" even though I am anything but. Modern feminism is not helping it's original cause, it's hurting it.

SeventhArchon
07-16-2015, 08:08 AM
Basically

Feminists are like Batman

When there's a bunch of evil motherf-ers around, you want them to come and save the day

But when he's repeatedly smashing in the face of a jaywalker, you just kinda want him caught and thrown in jail
I genuinely laughed at this one :D

SeventhArchon, please look back at your own replies: you can't give me any name. You don't know what you are talking about, yet you say those things are true. You can't tell me who are the so-called leaders of the feminism movement, yet you say the leaders are man-hating people. You can't tell me how many and who are the feminists who supposedly hate men, yet you say most feminists hate men. Please consider this carefully, because this is the last time I repeat myself.
For the last time I didn't say most. I don't know how many they are. But if this ideology is being spread among feminists then someone has to be in control to spread it. You can tell by their ideals if the good or bad ones are in charge. If the feminist media spreads the bad part it's not going to be the good ones in charge of it. Names are irrelevant. Calling out specific people is pointless. It's about the ideals in their own media, not in one specific mind.
You made a good point about Anita, and I appreciate it: she says many stupid things, but she also raises many valid points. I don't like Anita, I don't support her, but I appreciate that at least she managed to raise a very valid issue among her exagerations. Besides, Anita might certainly not be a likeable person, but people who wish her death are much, much less likeable than her. They don't understand that by acting like that they certainly make it look as if she is right.
There are lots of bad people on my side as well. I can't and won't try to deny that.
RippleApple also makes a good point, in a way. :P

ImAeternalis, I think you made a typo in your post, but I certainly hope you're not trying to have me banned for expressing my opinion in a civil discussion. XDHe said he asked to ban himself. Respectable decision because there was no drama involved and it's a lot better than letting things go out of hand.

SeventhArchon
07-16-2015, 08:10 AM
If this was 50 years ago and I held the same views I do now, I would be a feminist. Today, however, modern feminists have tainted the term. It now is a movement to elevate women above men, rather than be equal to men. It means lowering standards so women can meet them, rather than women rising up to the standards. It means being angry at anyone with a penis unless the owner of that penis believes himself inferior to women. It means believing women that don't subscribe to feminism are brainwashed by the "patriarchy".

I subscribe to equality, I am vehemently against modern feminism. This gives me the label of "misogynist" even though I am anything but. Modern feminism is not helping it's original cause, it's hurting it.

This beautifully sums up pretty much all of my posts in this thread.

ImAeternalis
07-16-2015, 10:52 AM
SeventhArchon, please look back at your own replies: you can't give me any name. You don't know what you are talking about, yet you say those things are true. You can't tell me who are the so-called leaders of the feminism movement, yet you say the leaders are man-hating people. You can't tell me how many and who are the feminists who supposedly hate men, yet you say most feminists hate men. Please consider this carefully, because this is the last time I repeat myself.

You made a good point about Anita, and I appreciate it: she says many stupid things, but she also raises many valid points. I don't like Anita, I don't support her, but I appreciate that at least she managed to raise a very valid issue among her exagerations. Besides, Anita might certainly not be a likeable person, but people who wish her death are much, much less likeable than her. They don't understand that by acting like that they certainly make it look as if she is right.

RippleApple also makes a good point, in a way. :P

ImAeternalis, I think you made a typo in your post, but I certainly hope you're not trying to have me banned for expressing my opinion in a civil discussion. XD

No, you just need to learn to read.

I asked for MYSELF to be banned for a week, because I needed to cool off.

I'm not going to try to get you banned for being a closed-minded person.

LunSei
07-16-2015, 01:33 PM
Wow, people asking to get themselves banned is something new for me. If you need a break from the forum, you could just, you know... not visit the forum? :P

What can I say, I already expressed my views. The feminism -I- know is about equality. Perhaps I didn't spend enough time on the internet, perhaps I'm just naive.
All I know is that if I tell a dude on the street "I'm a feminist" that person will reply "well, ok?"... if I say "I'm a feminist" on the internet, I am going to start a flamewar of "you are a mysandrist!!". Maybe things are different in other places.

And again, you guys really shouldn't worry either way. Feminism actually ruining things for men, even if that really is what feminism want nowadays.... is still about as likely to happen as the moon turning green.

ImAeternalis
07-16-2015, 01:39 PM
That's because 'people on the street' don't realize what feminism is trying to push. Female supremacy.

Once again, equality is Egalitarianism, Feminism is pushing a female-ruled agenda.

Pardon the language, but feminism is trying to make men pussies so that females can take lead of everything, and leave men on the side. Yes, I do believe that people like Anita Sarkeesian want to simply enslave men.

Women are ecstatic when a man becomes a trans woman, but the other way around they hate it and go batshit insane.

Maybe I'm paranoid, who knows, but the current feminism movement is getting ridiculous. I'm not a big conspiracy person either.

LunSei
07-16-2015, 03:36 PM
That's because 'people on the street' don't realize what feminism is trying to push. Female supremacy.

Once again, equality is Egalitarianism, Feminism is pushing a female-ruled agenda.

Pardon the language, but feminism is trying to make men pussies so that females can take lead of everything, and leave men on the side. Yes, I do believe that people like Anita Sarkeesian want to simply enslave men.

Women are ecstatic when a man becomes a trans woman, but the other way around they hate it and go batshit insane.

Maybe I'm paranoid, who knows, but the current feminism movement is getting ridiculous. I'm not a big conspiracy person either.


Allow me to say, you sound quite a bit insane from this post. Just my impression, I'm sorry as it sounds offensive.

SeventhArchon
07-16-2015, 04:41 PM
Allow me to say, you sound quite a bit insane from this post. Just my impression, I'm sorry as it sounds offensive.

After seeing all your usage of "insane" I'm pretty sure it's not the word you're looking for.

LunSei
07-17-2015, 06:21 AM
Women want to enslave men! Women want men to turn into other transex women, and hate when the opposite happens! Women want to take control of everything! This is Anita's true agenda!

......Oooooooooook.

....I am slowly backing away from this thread, guys...

GoldenSkill
07-17-2015, 08:26 AM
Can you show an example?
An example where the same women originally weren't oppressed by Islam itself. And by oppressed I mean made "worth less than a man".
Sorry, didn't check thi thread because i was sure i gave enough info. also,offtopic.
but here i am again
Despite the weakness of religious commitment among many Muslims nowadays, women still enjoy a high status, as daughters, wives or sisters.there are shortcomings, wrongdoing and neglect of women’s rights among some people, but each one will be answerable for himself
i won't lie to u, islam is mostly a religion of justice. but offers equality in treating others. men, women, adult, child or old.
for example; it is said that Muhammad was treating kids like if he was at their age, acting like a friend, understanding them.
there is a reason why prophethood was only given to men.
it is said that that the best way to reach Paradise is through one's mother
women and men complete one the other.
a logical person can easily understand this,
women's voice is heard just like men and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex
Historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on.They were not considered worthless creatures or slaves.
It is these extra responsibilities that give man a degree over woman in some economic aspects. It is not a higher degree in humanity or in character. Nor is it a dominance of one over the other or suppression of one by the other

SeventhArchon
07-17-2015, 11:32 AM
Women want to enslave men! Women want men to turn into other transex women, and hate when the opposite happens! Women want to take control of everything! This is Anita's true agenda!

......Oooooooooook.

....I am slowly backing away from this thread, guys...

Wait. What.
I haven't said any of those things and our part ended civilly. No one said what you "quoted".