PDA

View Full Version : Let's speak about education.



Myrkulyte
03-02-2015, 07:20 AM
I was reading a letter from a High Schooler to out Education Minister about how our system is broken, comunistic, doesn't encourage imagination and want to bring us to the same standard(that's on a TL, DR, but he really argued nice, polite and with good and objective arguments)

And I want to know about the education system in your countries and if some of you are teachers I also want to know your point of view as well as your experience.

Now onward with mine.
Our system is free all 12 years(in the last 2 we pay like 20$ for a manual, big deal) and is structured in 3 cicles: Primary, secondary(gimnasial) and liceal(High School). Each one of those is made from 4 years.
After the secondary cicle is over, each one of us get to choose a profile within the High School we choose. From arts/military/theory/sports/vocations to many others.

All good and nice up to now, everyone learn General Culture until 8th grade when we specialise. But, there is the problem. The difference between those profiles isn't really that big. I could very well go to either Intensive informatics either Math+info and I'll know exactly the same amount of maths+physics+chemistry+biology+whatever. There are a lot of parasitic subjects who just doesn't fit anywhere.

For example: Education for Bussines in 10th grade. By the time I get to open a bussines I'll forget everything I ever wrote there(and perhaps burn those pages too).
Health Education in 11th grade. It was an enjoyable subject, the teacher made it great, it was a really great hour/week, but in the end it was for naught. I learned more in the publicity and social campaings than at that course.

Phylosofi(12th)and Psychology(10th). Why should a maths student learn about this? I asked my teacher: after this year, what competences will I get in phylosofi? He said:" You'll learn something about it's history, who were some phylosofs and know how to interpret a text in a phylosofical manner." About Psychology, we had the worst teach ever, I don't remember an ounce of it.

Music and desain(thanks God th. I'm sure that if somene was curious about all this he would go to an arts profile. I'm sure they were intended as recreational hours, but when teachers ask you to write essays about some guys picture, the meaning of the collor pallete or something... it really destroy all the recreational ideea. Especially when I have to listen hours after hours to symphonies to be able to remember them when the teacher ask us about them.

Those parasitic subjects could very well be removed because stundents most of the time don't even remember them.


I am at the second best High School in my region, national college(many are intelligent, but lazy, lazy lazy), and in my last year (12th grade). I consider myself as both an unlucky and a lucky guy. On one hand my class have the strictest team of teachers and those ppl really want the best from us. While some classes racked more absences(in the world of 1000+) our own barely have 150-200 and only 20-30% of those are: 'I want a coffe'. Some classes have teachers with which 'bribe' and 'presents' are 2 common words. Despite our huge presence at hours most of my mates are down down, cuz they don't undertand what's happening at the table. For some guys maths=chinese, for me chemistry=japan(I can understand it, I can solve problems, but I can't remember formulas and how 2 substances go with each other) and so on. Biology was a struggle, especially to remember pages after pages after pages of dessains with neurons, hearts, brains, muscles and so on. My point is that there is a lot of theory, and most of it is meaningless for stundents.

Let's take a math example: this is the definition of a continue function in a point.
''The function f is continuous at some point c of its domain if the limit of f(x) as x approaches c through the domain of f exists and is equal to f(c).''

The definition we must learn?

'We say function f is continous in a point x0 if for any x from any neighbourhood of x0 intersected with the domain of the function f, f(x) is from s neighbourhood of f(x0)'

Which one you remember better? The first one because you use the term neighbourhood 3 times in 11th grade and most ppl have no ideea what is it, while I calculated I think 1000 limits. And calculating limits is what ppl do the entire year. You won't use the second definition ONCE in a problem.

This is just one of many. The derivatives, many ppl don't even know what they are intuitively. If someone would have told them: derivatives are how the function grows, then half of the derivatives proprierties would be 100% clear.

Nooo, we must learn 3 definitions with limits. Limit when x go to x0 from (f(x)-f(x0)/(x-x0)) tell you nothing about derivatives are.


I'll stop here and go to Language and Literature. I don't know about others, but there is no imagination at our hours. We write 40 minutes things about how in some lirical creation the genius never get love and is incapable of getting love, or about some novel characters and how they become from no ones big boys. What critics say is a MUST. The form of essays is fixed(Opinion, First of all, A second argument, in conclusion). There is no fun.

VarenWolf
03-02-2015, 07:51 AM
Well from were I am from in Iowa in US schools in my opinion in the US have become about grades not anything about after school. You have to wait till College before you actually learn anything that will really use. Cause Most of are math classes I sit through them like how am I going be using geometry or Algebra later in life are geometery teacher even admitted there isn't much you use it in daily life. So in all feels more like focus on A+ than actual needed information.

Disquieted1
03-02-2015, 09:16 AM
Like Varen, I'm also from the US. Won't say which state.

My school is one of the best in the country. Forgot ranking. Anyways, it's all about perspective. My teachers are great. Granted, I'm in advanced classes. They teach me what I need to know in college and in life. However my friends say their teachers are bad. It could be because of different classes, but also because of their view on school as a whole.

I'll be the first to admit that the US education system is one of the worst. We're taught to soak up information and regurgitate it on exams. We aren't taught to have an opinion nor to think critically. We're more concerned about grades than learning. I was home schooled until 6th grade, so I was able to do all that before coming to school.

Myrkulyte
03-02-2015, 09:19 AM
Like Varen, I'm also from the US. Won't say which state.

My school is one of the best in the country. Forgot ranking. Anyways, it's all about perspective. My teachers are great. Granted, I'm in advanced classes. They teach me what I need to know in college and in life. However my friends say their teachers are bad. It could be because of different classes, but also because of their view on school as a whole.

I'll be the first to admit that the US education system is one of the worst. We're taught to soak up information and regurgitate it on exams. We aren't taught to have an opinion nor to think critically. We're more concerned about grades than learning. I was home schooled until 6th grade, so I was able to do all that before coming to school.

Isn't the system common to all states? Be it Texas or California or whatever?

Disquieted1
03-02-2015, 09:47 AM
Isn't the system common to all states? Be it Texas or California or whatever?

Yes. Small variances but overall the same.

VarenWolf
03-02-2015, 09:52 AM
Isn't the system common to all states? Be it Texas or California or whatever?

no in the US some states are way worse than others. For example I am in a school ranked number 2-4 I believe. I do have teachers that share things that would actually affect us later in life while others are just un-needed. In the US their are certain Classes that are required by law which is utterly dumb. WHish was homeschooled honestly

DynamicMoves
03-02-2015, 10:21 AM
The US education system allows for failure. I know, because I failed a lot. I had no motivation, and no interest in the subject material.
But, even so, with my pathetic performance through high school, I still got a chance to go to college. In college I found a love for mathematics, and was easily able to graduate with a degree.

In short, if I lived anywhere else, I'd've been stuck at some trade school bumming my way through life.

Myrkulyte
03-02-2015, 11:03 AM
The US education system allows for failure. I know, because I failed a lot. I had no motivation, and no interest in the subject material.
But, even so, with my pathetic performance through high school, I still got a chance to go to college. In college I found a love for mathematics, and was easily able to graduate with a degree.

In short, if I lived anywhere else, I'd've been stuck at some trade school bumming my way through life.

I agree, most of the time even the guys with 10(A) get nowhere to work or work for small moneys. I also lost all my motivation this year, when I'm at max and everone else is mediocre, I don't wanna try anymore.

VarenWolf
03-02-2015, 11:31 AM
I agree, most of the time even the guys with 10(A) get nowhere to work or work for small moneys. I also lost all my motivation this year, when I'm at max and everone else is mediocre, I don't wanna try anymore.

Been really lazy this year and well still have high chance of easy way into college want to go to due to my college credit classes of Criminal Forensics for DMACC

KingScuba
03-02-2015, 01:35 PM
I'm currently in college, but I can comment on high school as well in the USA

The USA promotes an eclectic education system. This means that all students will study math, science, and the arts.

In 1st ~ 10th grade, we don't get to take electives. We take Science, Math, Art, Social Studies, History, English (Yes, we spend 10 years in English class and it's still not enough to promote good grammar.), A physical activity of our choice (Gymnastics, Basketball, Weight lifting, Tennis, Soccer, American Football, ETC), We'll also end up taking a Home Economics class (Teaching us how to cook, sew, and the like) as well as a Health Class (Ranging from sex education to Basic CPR and emergency response [We don't get certified])

From 10th and onwards, we do get to select electives. Personally, I took CAD and Auto Shop (Where I learned about cars) one year, then I went to homeschooling (I moved a lot, so it was just easier)


Now, that's fine and dandy since the education is both mandatory and basically free. I think it's a good idea to do an eclectic education from 12th and below.

College in America is split between 2 types. A trade school and Traditional Colleges.

Trade schools will teach you blue collar jobs within about a year. Auto repairman, Welding, HVAC, etc..

Traditional College requires an AA degree (An associates in the Arts) as well as a career path. So this means I have to take Math, English, History, A Science class, a Humanities Class, and an Art class, as well as whatever other Required classes they are. Personally I think this is asinine, since I'm going to college to be an engineer. I don't need art, science, or humanities... I need math, physics, and cad classes.

So woo to wasted money.

DynamicMoves
03-02-2015, 01:48 PM
I'm currently in college, but I can comment on high school as well in the USA

The USA promotes an eclectic education system. This means that all students will study math, science, and the arts.

In 1st ~ 10th grade, we don't get to take electives. We take Science, Math, Art, Social Studies, History, English (Yes, we spend 10 years in English class and it's still not enough to promote good grammar.), A physical activity of our choice (Gymnastics, Basketball, Weight lifting, Tennis, Soccer, American Football, ETC), We'll also end up taking a Home Economics class (Teaching us how to cook, sew, and the like) as well as a Health Class (Ranging from sex education to Basic CPR and emergency response [We don't get certified])

From 10th and onwards, we do get to select electives. Personally, I took CAD and Auto Shop (Where I learned about cars) one year, then I went to homeschooling (I moved a lot, so it was just easier)


Now, that's fine and dandy since the education is both mandatory and basically free. I think it's a good idea to do an eclectic education from 12th and below.

College in America is split between 2 types. A trade school and Traditional Colleges.

Trade schools will teach you blue collar jobs within about a year. Auto repairman, Welding, HVAC, etc..

Traditional College requires an AA degree (An associates in the Arts) as well as a career path. So this means I have to take Math, English, History, A Science class, a Humanities Class, and an Art class, as well as whatever other Required classes they are. Personally I think this is asinine, since I'm going to college to be an engineer. I don't need art, science, or humanities... I need math, physics, and cad classes.

So woo to wasted money.

Don't know how far in college you are, but a point of advice, skip those core classes till the end in case you transfer.
Also, some schools don't make you take some of those classes (think VT).
However, to say you don't need science, and then say you need physics...

RippleApple
03-02-2015, 02:27 PM
I'll talk about my experiences year by year.

Preschool: No real complaints. Got in a few scuffles with kids, but the teachers were fine.
1st grade: My teacher wouldn't let us use the bathroom more than once a day and half the class was pissing their pants because of it. A lot of complaints from parents later and she changed her tune.
2nd grade: Things were fine. Good teacher. Eventually promoted to a staff member.
3rd grade: Pretty much the same, though she didn't become a staff member. Good memories.
4th grade: Teacher was a dimwit who without any evidence accused small children of stealing from each other and took their lunch away from them until they came clean and confessed to something it turned out never actually happened. I got bullied that year pretty hard which culminated in a little brat hitting me while a bunch of people watched as I tried to escape. A teacher was afraid to stop it so she got an officer instead several minutes later. The one who attacked me ended up being suspended for a couple weeks and came back the very next day because nobody gave a shit and his mother refused to watch him at home. They also tried to suspend me for not fighting back or picking the fight and the only reason they didn't do that was because a staff member vouched that I never threw a punch and they believed her. That staff member was my teacher in second grade.
Fifth grade: Teacher was a black racist who thought I was dumb for some reason and I caught her multiple times giving me a lower grade for answers that were the same as black kids who were marked right. She was really salty whenever I'd call her out on that. One time she had to regrade it completely and made the excuse that she used the wrong answer sheet (for only mine, curiously enough) and when I passed the test with a B she claimed I only passed by the skin of my teeth. I made a science fair project studying the effects of electromagnetism and actually made a magnet. I did everything right and she gave me a D, whereas the countless baking soda volcano projects all got A's-- but only if the person making it was black or female. Her preferred substitute was also racist like her, one time pointing only me out in a classroom of unruly students as calling her something insulting, when in reality I was literally the only one in the whole class doing the classwork that was assigned. They ended up giving me detention and as I cried, sweeping the halls, my teacher insulting me over and over, my parents who were called decided to take me out of that school for the rest of the year, which was like a month.

The next year, everyone in the school was fired and replaced by staff that wasn't quite so evil and racist because they were a failing school. Thanks, Bush, you did a good thing there. As an aside, I forget the year, four or five, but at one point they would actually not let the worst-performing students take the standardized tests that determined the school's funding as they would just sit in the corner of the room, unable to read, playing with toys and eating candy.

Middle school was from 6th to 8th grade. I went to a better school, but at one point I was called back to my elementary school to return a book... which I actually found in the library itself just sitting exactly where it should've been. Oops. Then... it happened AGAIN with a different book the next year, which I pointed out again sitting exactly where it should've been. Apparently my school wasn't even good at book-keeping.

In sixth grade they put me in the wrong math class. I was in the highest one as opposed to the lowest one, and got a piece of paper that confirmed that from the office. My teacher decided to give me a little test, and asked me something about the lesson he gave earlier, and I recalled word for word every single thing he said during the lecture. He was impressed enough, smiled pretty wide and told me to go. In seventh grade I was bullied a bit, but only light teasing and pranking. We eventually became friends. In eighth grade, a teacher was driven slightly insane by her students and ended up quitting a month into the year. We all were given "Incomplete" grades and assigned a new teacher after a string of substitutes said "Fuck this". Half of the class was broken up and put into various classes of that subject (english, actually) at random. I decided to stay in the half that remained. The teacher was a bit strange. Polite, but maybe a bit too polite. Everything she did always seemed very flirtatious when directed toward me. I kind of kept my distance because of it. A few times she actually invited me to stay after class with her... I declined because I felt something was off. I don't really know if she was a pedophile, but she might've been. Kind of a cruel accusation to make definitively without any proof though. (And she was pretty attractive)

Also the fucks lost my yearbook and made me buy another because fuck if they can own up to any responsibility at all.

Then after middle school, I moved to Vermont. I dealt with bullies in 9th grade, but as I finally hit my growth spurt and ended up bigger and taller than them, they did so a lot less often. Something strange happened then too: Other students were actually nice to me and offered to help me if it ever came to blows. Eventually I stood up for myself and they left me alone. They graduated later that year and things were very peaceful for the next few years. Though, in my senior year a Japanese english teacher who didn't like me decided that me correcting his pronunciation of my last name was enough to give me detention. I was sent to some back room with some troublemakers and asked if I could do my homework. They told me I could, so I did. Also, in my freshman year a teacher made up some mildly racist song about my last name. I found it funny though. The senior citizen principal also got arrested for alleged sexual misconduct in my last year there. It made his wandering around the school and checking out classes make more sense. He was probably looking for the right underage girls to ogle.

Also a friend of mine had to pay them for a book he returned because they didn't feel like checking their storage rooms for whether it was actually there or not.

All in all it taught me that asshole racists exist of all colors and creeds, assholes exist of all colors and creeds, not all racists are assholes, and schools have pedophiles. Everywhere. Always. Also schools are really, really bad at book-keeping. My gosh. Three for three.

If anyone's interested I could also talk about the problems I had in college, but I don't think anyone would be interested in such a thing.

BlueFast
03-04-2015, 10:44 PM
Like Varen, I'm also from the US. Won't say which state.

My school is one of the best in the country. Forgot ranking. Anyways, it's all about perspective. My teachers are great. Granted, I'm in advanced classes. They teach me what I need to know in college and in life. However my friends say their teachers are bad. It could be because of different classes, but also because of their view on school as a whole.

I'll be the first to admit that the US education system is one of the worst. We're taught to soak up information and regurgitate it on exams. We aren't taught to have an opinion nor to think critically. We're more concerned about grades than learning. I was home schooled until 6th grade, so I was able to do all that before coming to school.

No, you won't be the first, trust me. I enjoy school, I really do, but grades are being held to a higher standard than learning.

SixSwordStyle
03-23-2015, 01:56 AM
i live in the us, and we pump alot of money into education. In my state, there are grants that is based on test scores and the reason why you are appling for the grant. We also taxed my community to fund the public high school system. All and all, I slacked through high school and kinda dropped out of community college for the lack of it begining the same thing as high school. I feel that the american school system doesn't want to brighten your intellect just wants to you to know a bunch of facts. Critical thinking wasn't really taught. It has been years and my memory of high school producers are lacking with the current thoughts that go though my head. Anyways, think we need to be like japan, were if you don't pass a test at a certain grade you don't advance to the next stage and you become a labor. Sorry if I went off topic.

Myrkulyte
03-23-2015, 02:03 AM
i live in the us, and we pump alot of money into education. In my state, there are grants that is based on test scores and the reason why you are appling for the grant. We also taxed my community to fund the public high school system. All and all, I slacked through high school and kinda dropped out of community college for the lack of it begining the same thing as high school. I feel that the american school system doesn't want to brighten your intellect just wants to you to know a bunch of facts. Critical thinking wasn't really taught. It has been years and my memory of high school producers are lacking with the current thoughts that go though my head. Anyways, think we need to be like japan, were if you don't pass a test at a certain grade you don't advance to the next stage and you become a labor. Sorry if I went off topic.


I still don`tget how can someone be taught critically thinking. I do it instinctually.

Disquieted1
03-23-2015, 09:39 AM
I still don`tget how can someone be taught critically thinking. I do it instinctually.

That moment when you ask someone why they think Russia is bad.

"Because they're communists."

Then you say the Soviet Union was communist, then you ask why communism is bad.

They shrug. "It just is."

Then you tell them "Space exploration is making large advances. India launched a rocket for less than other countries. Space exploration has had accidents though, like the Challenger space shuttle disaster. Should we continue space exploration?"

Then they look at you blankly. They have no words. No opinion. No thought process.

Myrkulyte
03-23-2015, 02:22 PM
That moment when you ask someone why they think Russia is bad.

"Because they're communists."

Then you say the Soviet Union was communist, then you ask why communism is bad.

They shrug. "It just is."

Then you tell them "Space exploration is making large advances. India launched a rocket for less than other countries. Space exploration has had accidents though, like the Challenger space shuttle disaster. Should we continue space exploration?"

Then they look at you blankly. They have no words. No opinion. No thought process.

I am pretty sure it's because they don't care. We as people, for a happy life, don't need intelligence. Who is happier? The drunken pig or the guy who work 10hours at a multinational? True, the drunken pig doesn't have much money, but he really need it? And stupidity is also a manipulation tehnique. An intelligent person can't be manipulated, while a stupid one is a toy.

RippleApple
03-23-2015, 03:43 PM
I am pretty sure it's because they don't care. We as people, for a happy life, don't need intelligence. Who is happier? The drunken pig or the guy who work 10hours at a multinational? True, the drunken pig doesn't have much money, but he really need it? And stupidity is also a manipulation tehnique. An intelligent person can't be manipulated, while a stupid one is a toy.

Intelligent people are more easily-manipulated than stupid people just by telling them that they're intelligent. Smart people want to be smart. They usually don't want to just be stupid.

"Oh! You're right about that! Aren't you special?"

That kind of thing.

Myrkulyte
03-23-2015, 04:24 PM
Intelligent people are more easily-manipulated than stupid people just by telling them that they're intelligent. Smart people want to be smart. They usually don't want to just be stupid.

"Oh! You're right about that! Aren't you special?"

That kind of thing.

That's an orgoly/personal ego thing. I doubt that you would give someone more attention/love/friendship because they told you you are superior. A smart&intelligent person know his value

As a remark,we must make the difference between stientific intelligence, smartness and wisdom.

IM definition, a smart person is good at social life. For example, they have leader qualities, they know to manage money, make friends, get the best of most situations. But, the great but, this person can lack general culture informations like physics, history, geography.


Wisdom is the ability to understand what surround you and manipulate it good. But, it doesn't imply logic and understanding of complex things.

Stientific intelligence is all about logic, understanding of complex things, analitic skills and memory and discipline.

As an example of ppl with all those 3 qualities I would say Kao fits the bill from what we know of him. A person with 2 tipes of thosd would be me. While I consider myself intelligent and quite smart, my wisdom is nearly 0.

School have no deal with wisdom and smartness, not by a mile, the subjects want to improve SI. But it's doing a bad job as it is. They make you walking enciclopedies, and doesn't improve any other of the SI skills. That's where great teachers shines from the bulk of ok/bad teachers but that's for later.

Trubblegum
03-23-2015, 05:16 PM
Education in all but America: Come children! Learn!

Education in America: WHAT THE FUCKS A SCHOOL? I WANT MORE MONEY! MORE MONEY FOR THE MONEYBATH!

I love cynicism :3

Disquieted1
03-23-2015, 05:40 PM
I am pretty sure it's because they don't care. We as people, for a happy life, don't need intelligence. Who is happier? The drunken pig or the guy who work 10hours at a multinational? True, the drunken pig doesn't have much money, but he really need it? And stupidity is also a manipulation tehnique. An intelligent person can't be manipulated, while a stupid one is a toy.

I'm not even writing about being happy. Some people are just plain dumb, some are plain ignorant, and some are plain both.

They have no opinion, and therefore lose themselves. They're just fed what to think and vomit what they've heard when asked.

A classmate of mine (18 years old) was asked about her opinion on the Michael Brown shooting. She had NOTHING. As much as it irritates me, I actually think I like it when people are that way. It'll give me an edge in... well, basically everything.

KingScuba
03-23-2015, 08:47 PM
Don't know how far in college you are, but a point of advice, skip those core classes till the end in case you transfer.
Also, some schools don't make you take some of those classes (think VT).
However, to say you don't need science, and then say you need physics...

I'm talking chemistry and such. Yes, I will need some science classes (Metalurgy and the like for sure), but on the most part it's just a waste of time :Z

AllknowingWolf
05-12-2015, 02:07 AM
I wrote a lot about this, but I'll just make it brief. (and yes this is the short version)

My father and mother have masters degrees, mom has two. They both work jobs that constantly don't treat them with any respect. My brother has a masters degree in 1 year in a special program were they teach you many years of work in one, (less than 25 percent success rate?) and bachelors degree and also went to a special high school. Works minimum wage (i think) because his last job kept firing/not firing him.

I finished high school, got a special degree in pet grooming and did some college. Most of my job interviews were jokes, and I feel like I wasted my damn time.

A handful of my friends did not finish high school. They all work...most get paid more then minimum wage.

Not a single person I know actually benefited as much as they should of with education. Know a shit ton of people who learned trades and make a living that way.

Public schools are awful. Not only did they not teach me as well in 1 year that a private class taught me in 3 months. They never stopped bullies, only hurting students, that either did nothing, defended back, or tried to record bullying. They had consumers that blamed the students for being bullied, asking 'what you could have done'? They did not even do their own jobs. I at one point was suppose to be given a laptop to do my work on because my handwriting was poor so I got every answer right but since they couldn't read it, I failed.

Went to a computer school in high school, in a more ghetto area. Were their were cops...Kids could smoke in front of them, and not get in trouble. Had certain teachers harass me because I knew a question they didn't when a student asked for help. Had teachers stop me from taking classes because I was too far ahead...(Still I ended up finishing school 8 months before normal high schoolers got out.)


Speaking of which, my brother who had a teaching job. Went to a school, were they literally were breaking the law. They were telling teachers to raise kids grades if they were good on the basketball team.

And because I have two family members that are teachers, I know the administrators are usually the ones at fault. Not knowing how to teach, and forcing the teachers to teach a certain way. The school system is so bad, both parties, and almost everyone I've ever meet says something is wrong with them.

So in short, education for me was a complete ****ing waste of my time, and it has help absolutely no one I know.

But, I will say this in defense. American colleges unlike many colleges elsewhere accept all even foreigners and you don't need perfect grades. The reason other people have such good scores on average is because barely anyone goes to them. No one who cant even speak the language can go, nor can someone clearly not prepared for college.

ImAeternalis
05-12-2015, 05:41 AM
I'll post my full argument/opinion/blahblah/tl;dr later today, but I really hate the school system. It stifles anything new and doesn't allow breathing room in a very stressful environment.

Najh98
05-12-2015, 04:41 PM
Well from were I am from in Iowa in US schools in my opinion in the US have become about grades not anything about after school. You have to wait till College before you actually learn anything that will really use. Cause Most of are math classes I sit through them like how am I going be using geometry or Algebra later in life are geometery teacher even admitted there isn't much you use it in daily life. So in all feels more like focus on A+ than actual needed information.

EXACTLY! I'm in the US too and I agree with everything you've said. It's more about the grades. The one problem I have with school is that they don't teach you what you actually need for the real world. In the real world, you're not going to need algebra, geomotry, trig, calc unless you're going into a field with which you will need a higher education with math. How I see it, schools should be like college, let you pick classes about the types of jobs that there are. If you know what you want to already do, why waste our middle school (8 grade) and high school teaching us things that aren't even going to show up in the real world. If they have those classes about jobs, then we would excell at that job and could pick classes about other jobs that could interest you. Then, when it's time for college, you have a great understanding about the job you want to you and how to do it. There aren't going to be tests, essays, keystones, PSSA's etc out there. (Except if you're going to become an author or something that has to do with writing.) Even so, they should have classes for jobs, not pointless things that no one will actually use later in life. They just want us to fail.

Myrkulyte
05-13-2015, 01:31 PM
EXACTLY! I'm in the US too and I agree with everything you've said. It's more about the grades. The one problem I have with school is that they don't teach you what you actually need for the real world. In the real world, you're not going to need algebra, geomotry, trig, calc unless you're going into a field with which you will need a higher education with math. How I see it, schools should be like college, let you pick classes about the types of jobs that there are. If you know what you want to already do, why waste our middle school (8 grade) and high school teaching us things that aren't even going to show up in the real world. If they have those classes about jobs, then we would excell at that job and could pick classes about other jobs that could interest you. Then, when it's time for college, you have a great understanding about the job you want to you and how to do it. There aren't going to be tests, essays, keystones, PSSA's etc out there. (Except if you're going to become an author or something that has to do with writing.) Even so, they should have classes for jobs, not pointless things that no one will actually use later in life. They just want us to fail.

Well, I kinda disagree that a 14-15 years old child knows what he wants to do later

AllknowingWolf
05-13-2015, 03:12 PM
Well, I kinda disagree that a 14-15 years old child knows what he wants to do later

Most 20 somethings don't know what they want to do, so agreed teens has any clue what future they're going to have.

Pokechu212
05-13-2015, 03:21 PM
EXACTLY! I'm in the US too and I agree with everything you've said. It's more about the grades. The one problem I have with school is that they don't teach you what you actually need for the real world. In the real world, you're not going to need algebra, geomotry, trig, calc unless you're going into a field with which you will need a higher education with math. How I see it, schools should be like college, let you pick classes about the types of jobs that there are. If you know what you want to already do, why waste our middle school (8 grade) and high school teaching us things that aren't even going to show up in the real world. If they have those classes about jobs, then we would excell at that job and could pick classes about other jobs that could interest you. Then, when it's time for college, you have a great understanding about the job you want to you and how to do it. There aren't going to be tests, essays, keystones, PSSA's etc out there. (Except if you're going to become an author or something that has to do with writing.) Even so, they should have classes for jobs, not pointless things that no one will actually use later in life. They just want us to fail.
Once you get into late middle school and high school, a lot of what you learn in each class becomes more about teaching thinking skills and problem solving than the actual subject material. Subjects like literature, language arts, social studies, and mathematics help to develop problem solving skills in general. So those courses aren't unnecessary, it's just that the material in each course isn't directly used in life. I don't think you'll ever need to know how to factor quadratic equations, but algebra helps with the mind.

Now the issue with all of this is that none of the material is actually at the level of the students. The material is either stupid easy, and some students end up just sitting in class spacing out because they understood the material when the teacher first said it, or, for other students, it's stupid hard. The reason it's stupid hard, however, is because kids these days seem to have ADD without actually having ADD. Many students in this generation couldn't focus on work for their lives, and schools haven't been able to adapt to that. The schools have tried making it better for the students falling behind by making the courses slower and easier to understand, but then the kids who understand it perfectly just lose all interest in the subject, and eventually they resort to a private school or boarding school.

That's at least how it works in my district. I've only gone to (and am still going to) one town's public schools, and so I haven't seen any other system besides my own.

RippleApple
05-13-2015, 03:51 PM
Most 20 somethings don't know what they want to do, so agreed teens has any clue what future they're going to have.

Then what's the point of educating them with useless information if you don't think they're going to actually use any of it because they don't know what they want to do with their life?

Show them different jobs, what would be required of them, and what kind of life they would lead. Maybe the reason they don't know what they want to do with their life is because they're ignorant of what the world is really like and the opinion you're stating is the justification behind not teaching them what the world is really like. Keeping them in ignorance, rather than enlightening them.

Najh98
05-13-2015, 05:12 PM
Well, I kinda disagree that a 14-15 years old child knows what he wants to do later


Ya, I said IF you know what you want to do. Plus, they would have classes about jobs, so you could get a to know what to do in that job and see if you like it or not. It would give you more experience in different kinds of jobs.

@RippleApple I totally agree.

@Pokechu212 Ya, I'm getting kind of bored of school. It's basically the same routine everyday. There's nothing exciting to do and I learn useless information.

RippleApple
05-13-2015, 05:18 PM
I disagree with the idea at large, but for a much better reason than these guys have kneejerked. I've come into contact with that idea before and used to agree with it.

The problem is if it's job-driven and corporations give you training in regular school (and not trade school)... what's to stop them from interfering with the process of education so you really don't learn anything at all and become an easily-manipulated fool? If they're the ones funding the schools, that could be a conflict of interest.

If you'll notice, above, I remarked on a similar conflict of interest already present.

Ultimately, every school should double as a trade school, however. If you want to be a mechanic there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to learn about that instead of geology. No matter what, it's a useful skill to learn early on because you'll always be able to find employment, instead of schools producing a bunch of arrogant, smartass large children who don't even know how to stock shelves.

AllknowingWolf
05-13-2015, 06:25 PM
Also according to my roommate, other colleges literally only teach what you need to learn, where as america college teaches you every thing under the sun most not needing for what your going to college for...so that's probably why its more affordable if there is only one or a small handful of classes.

RippleApple
05-13-2015, 07:44 PM
Yeah, USA colleges are some of the most greedy, predatory places on the planet.

AasaOmega
05-14-2015, 08:18 PM
I am from the US, but I find that most schools here are a joke... they teach us nothing. Wanna learn? we should go to China or Japan where they actually teach their kids something.

RippleApple
05-14-2015, 09:59 PM
I am from the US, but I find that most schools here are a joke... they teach us nothing. Wanna learn? we should go to China or Japan where they actually teach their kids something.

Not China. Mostly there they teach their kids how dear leader loves them unless you're a rich westerner. Japan, though.

XXVII
05-15-2015, 08:33 AM
I am from Romania (same as Myrk) and I can also say the actual education system is very bad. I came to belive that they want us all to be sheeps. Too many close-minded people that are something like "Ooh, you don't read (about informatics), you gonna die of starvation." My informatics teacher always like this, that if you don't choose the informatics you will have a very bad life and such. Like why would I do that if I don't want and I don't like it or if I'm better at something else?

There are only a few people that realised the situation. Like a music teacher I had only 2-3 weeks, the Geography teacher or the Headmistress that teaches economics. The headmistress told us 2 weeks ago this: "Us (the teachers) have to know how to teach. A teacher should not be just a source of information cause you have acces to much much more information, we have to know how to select information and give to you what you'll need."

My math teacher is the worst of them all (and I am at a Math-Informatics High School). Sometimes we even did x2 more hours in a week than the rest from the school and we are behind with 2 weeks. Oh, and actually that "bonus" hours we do are like useless waste of hours, so now I made a program for myself and to actually learn math, reviewing everything and re-learning. Because I have to see the point in something, to know why it is there, why it was created and how it would help me to learn in, or to explore by myself. Teachers don't encourage exploration and creativity and actually that is what's important.

School and education in general feels like a modern surviving game.

Sirvanas
05-17-2015, 07:11 PM
I think the education system promotes helplessness and dependency. (this is explained well by the youtuber veritasium in his video "learned helplessness") The school system focuses mainly in grades and tests and gives you little to no say on the matter. They also tend to want to take full control of us. This shows as they make useless rules which only helps to control the mass of youngsters. They also show how close minded they are to change. After all the school system is not fond of change and likes to keep doing the same and teaching the same. An example of this is in the science subject were they are putting old knowledge without implementing new ones which are, by the way, the main ones who will shape our future.
Also, now that I am in the subject of science. Why do they teach so much calculations in them. Sure, you will use them if you get to be a chemist or something but at a high school level it's really about bringing you to the subject. With so much math employed they are taking away from the beauty of science. This because putting so much math only takes space and the amount of materials which they can cover like this is very small.

Disquieted1
05-18-2015, 08:26 AM
Also, now that I am in the subject of science. Why do they teach so much calculations in them. Sure, you will use them if you get to be a chemist or something but at a high school level it's really about bringing you to the subject. With so much math employed they are taking away from the beauty of science. This because putting so much math only takes space and the amount of materials which they can cover like this is very small.
Simultaneously, math is taught like a science.

On that topic, math and science teachers are generally bad. I'm lucky to have teachers that appreciated the subject, but I know many others don't. Math is math, and science is science. Teaching math like a science and science like math takes away from the beauty of it.

VarenWolf
05-18-2015, 08:46 AM
Simultaneously, math is taught like a science.

On that topic, math and science teachers are generally bad. I'm lucky to have teachers that appreciated the subject, but I know many others don't. Math is math, and science is science. Teaching math like a science and science like math takes away from the beauty of it.

Are school really only has one Really good Math teacher but really Geometry but either way he is a realist so very up front about things so easier to go through his class. Only learned about 3 things this year because most of Geometry is basic

KFire
05-18-2015, 06:35 PM
I think education falls a lot on the professors. I had classes in the US with awesome, good, bad, and awful professors. I had enjoyed and learned with good professors, and i have gotten bored and feel like I was wasting my time with bad professors. I had even a professor that i got tired of correcting him. Really i need the credits, but when everything he says is wrong, it is just hard. In my country i was in an awesome high school. Most of my professors where awesome. There I fell in love with physics that i never even paid attention in my middle school. It is hard to determine until what point is the system and from what point is the professors.

Education really gets my attention. I get angry every time that I hear about some violation to education throughout time and all around the planet. A person that is long dead and which figure has been prostituted said "Be educated to be free". I am strong believer in those words. I would love to improve in some way the education system or help educate people. I suppose I am still far from making any impact. My main focus now is in getting educated.

From the system perspective. I believe that schools should include topics in communication, leadership, cultures, government, nutrition. I had a professor of humanities that actually took us to movies festivals, museums, art galleries, architecture novelties.I learned a lot about the local culture. I have lived 3 years in the US and i bet I know more about how the american government works than most Americans. If you live in a country and you dont know what its constitution says you are lost there.

Also another topic that i would like to know about is sex ed :P but i likely make a thread just for it.

Disquieted1
05-18-2015, 10:51 PM
Also another topic that i would like to know about is sex ed :P but i likely make a thread just for it.

Go watch some porn.

RippleApple
05-18-2015, 10:55 PM
Go watch some porn.

Porn doesn't teach you anything about sex. Trust me.

Disquieted1
05-18-2015, 11:19 PM
Porn doesn't teach you anything about sex. Trust me.

I'm about to punch a baby.

I don't want to go back to the days where I need to go Size 5, Red Arial Black text that says

Sarcasm.

Adr1anP3laj
05-18-2015, 11:53 PM
Europe education here. Mmmmmhhhh.. it sucks.

RippleApple
05-19-2015, 12:48 AM
I'm about to punch a baby.

I don't want to go back to the days where I need to go Size 5, Red Arial Black text that says

Sarcasm.

Sorry, you just struck me as the naive type.

Sirvanas
05-19-2015, 01:14 PM
Sorry, you just struck me as the naive type.
You were struck with naive sarcasm hehehehe

Myrkulyte
05-19-2015, 01:17 PM
Go watch some porn.

YOu know, porn really disrupts the sex ideea

Disquieted1
05-19-2015, 03:15 PM
YOu know, porn really disrupts the sex ideea

I won't write anything relevant in response, since you are a selective reader, shown by ignoring a post I made after the one you quoted -- so you will likely ignore everything I write here.

Myrkulyte
05-19-2015, 03:23 PM
I won't write anything relevant in response, since you are a selective reader, shown by ignoring a post I made after the one you quoted -- so you will likely ignore everything I write here.*sigh* you should know that I also was trying to be funny about that. I've read that post ofc. You should know me.