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Jokahine
03-22-2014, 01:02 PM
Here are some of my small balancing changes to items:


Diversying adc builds:
Stacking items
Charged morningstar/trandescence

So, i would like to see adc's have more than 1 start that is considered viable. to do this, we need to make other stacking items rushable. so, i suggest these changes:


Charged morningstar

Decrease cost to 1420.
The physical power would be lowered to 20.
the mp5 would be increased to 5.



Trandescence

Lower the cost of this item to 2400.
Increase mp5 to 10, and decrease physical power to 30. (To keep the item balanced, the ~200 cost reduction is a big deal)



30 Physical power
300 Mana
10 Mp5
+ The passive

With these changes, this item would be a lot more balanced. it gives a huge amount of power, but that is the only combat stat it gives you. it would be great on physical gods with good scalings like loki.


Spiked gauntlet/Cursed gauntlet/devourer's gauntlet
The cost of devourer's gloves is infuritiating. tier 1 costs 705 gold so you can not buy it with death's toll, and t2 costs 1565 gold so you can not start with it. here is what i propose:


Spiked gauntlet

Decrease cost to 620. (this only gives 7% lifesteal, so 620 gold seems like a good cost for that.)


Cursed gauntlet

Decrease the cost to 1450.

Devourer's gloves would stay the same.


Heartseeker
With the other stacking items getting buffed, heartseeker tier 2 could be changed to:

1350 gold
20 physical power
5% movement speed

And the tier 3 of heartseeker would stay the same.


The Lifesteal item
Bound gauntlet

If Bound gauntlet (and soul eater) Get buffed, adc's could choose their lifesteal item from more than one option.

Bound Gauntlet - 1100 gold

200 Health
10% Physical Lifesteal
7% Attack Speed


-->
Bound Gauntlet - 1100 gold

150 Health
15% Physical Lifesteal
15% Attack Speed

But wait, how could the tier 2 give more attack speed than the tier 3? Well, the tier 3 should get buffed too:

Soul Eater - 2000 gold

300 Health
15% Physical Lifesteal
10% Attack Speed

AURA - +10 Physical Power and +10% Physical Lifesteal to all allies within 70 units.

-->
Soul Eater - 2000 gold

300 Health
15% Physical Lifesteal
15% Attack Speed

AURA - +10% Attack speed and +10% Physical Lifesteal to all allies within 70 units.

The aura is a lot better when giving attack speed instaed of physical power. That's the way it should be in my opinion. While asi would give more attack speed, Soul eater would give more lifesteal, with both also giving their own different stat. Asi would be better for dps, Soul eater would be better for 1v1's, and the aura would help your frontline in fights.

I assume that the aura giving physical power was a lazy fix from hirez to prevent mages from getting the physical lifesteal. Nowadays hirez should have the recources to fix this.


The big crit item

Malice
I would like this item's stats to be a bit different from deathbringer.

50 -> 40 physical power
0 -> 20% attack speed
20 -> 20% critical strike chance.


Also, the passive needs a buff. I like the suggestion of it stacking, to make it better against tankier gods. So, 10% every 0,5s for 3s, max 1 stack -> 10% per stack every 0,2s for 2s, max 2 stacks.

Passive: Dealing critical strike damage to an enemy applies a bleed that does 10% of your physical power as physical damage every .2s for 2s. Maximium of 2 stacks. Dealing critical strike damage refreshes the stacks.

This would make it better against more tanky gods and better for poking, deathbringer would be better against squishy gods, and would remain the best item for burst. Also, deathbringer would be better on gods whose attack speed is already capped withought the 20% from malice, like artemis, and malice would be better on gods that already have a physical power buff in their kits and benefit a lot from additional attack speed, like xbal.


Situnational items

Brawler's beatstick

Physical power: 40 -> 50
Penetration: stays the same
Passive: stays the same

This item needs buffs in general. Buffing it would make it viable on adcs against a high healing team. It should however not be buffed enough to make it mandarory. Increasing the physical power by 10 seems good.


OTHER ITEMS

Midgardian mail

This item's problem is its reliability. in my opinion, random number generators do not belong in moba's so, i think changing the passive more reliable would fix the item.

350 Health
60 Physical protection

Passive: 30% chance to slow enemies's attack and movement speed by 30% -> When hit by an basic attack, the attacker's movement and attack speed are decreased by 10%. max 3 stacks. (duration: 1s)

So, the insanely low duration is there to make this item mostly only useful against gods with quick attack speeds. also, the duration is so low, you can wait beetween your auto attacks for a very small time to not get more than one stack on you.

This item would be a conditional counter to quick attack speed. Having it would help you tremendously against a god like bakasura.


Reinforced greaves
These need buffs. cdr boots are just so much better, and early on you want to pick midas's anyways. here is what i suggest:

First up, 27% movement speed out of combat instaed of 26. this would be more linear as 18 * 1.5 = 27. this is a really small buff actually.
Secondly, cost reduction to 1980 gold. (2140 -> 1980 = 160 gold cost decrease.) they are currently way too expensive when you compare what they do to what other boots do.
Third, the health. the heath this item gives is like so low. i'd like to see the health in 100 instaed of 50.
And fourth, the protections. i'd like to see the protections at 30 each, which is a small 5 protections increase.

This might not be enough to make the item viable, but it would help them out by a lot.


Asi
So, asi is a great item, but currently the tier 3 of this item is not worth buying almost ever. some cost reduction might make buying it an viable option:

Asi t3: 1850 -> 1750 gold (so, the passive is worth ~100 gold, which is more of a right place for it.)



Golden bow
So, i'd like this item to be a bit better to help gods with bad clear early on.

Tier 2:

Increase the physical power to 25 from 22.


tier 3:

5% -> 10% movement speed
35 -> 40 Physical power.
2480 -> 2250 gold.



Mystical mail
Just a small suggestion here: make the damage 30 + 1 per your level. this would make the damage scale a bit better into late game.


Shell
So, this active item. i am sure most of you did not even know it exists. that is becouse it is bad. i would like to see the cooldown be 90/60/60 seconds (90/90/90) and the protections be 20/35/50. (15/30/45).

Another thing is, that it is unreasonable for shell to have such a small radius.The radius should be the same as with girdle.


Soul reaver
This is a great item if one wants to oneshot someone. However it doesn't have much use outside of that, due to having a very long cooldown. i will present a very interesting buff here:


100 magical power
300 mana

PASSIVE - When a god takes damage from your abilities, they take 15% -> 10% of their maximum health in additional damage. If multiple gods are hit, the damage is applied to the one with the greatest maximum health. This can only occur once every 60 seconds. Whenever you get a kill, this item's cooldown is resetted.

With this buff, it would be really good on magical gods, who can after getting one kill, follow and get more kills. This item would be really good on scylla, for example. The health taken should however be reduced slightly due to that passive change.


Pythagoram's piece
Magical power 70 -> 80 to make it better when compared to bancrofts.
Also, a cost reduction from 2600 to 2520 seems good.


Divine ruin
This conditional item is bad, even in the best conditions. Needs buffs:

Magical power 50 -> 60. magical power is this item's only good stat, so it should be buffed in my opinion.
Mana 150 -> 200
Magical lifesteal 15% -> 20%. (so that the stats are double of the previous tiers stats.)
Cost from 1820 to 1750.



Chronos pendant
After the buffs BoV is still a lot superior. The power should be increased. 75 -> 80 is good.
Also, a small cost reduction, 2100 gold would be a good cost for pendant.


Combat blink
As a part of nerfing odin, this active needs to get buffed. I would say, at a 150s cooldown would be balanced (30s reduced cd.)

ChrisJD10
03-22-2014, 04:06 PM
I agree with almost everything here, the RNG element on mail needs to go for sure, but instead of 1 second I think 1.5 would be better, the shell cooldown looks a bit extreme at 30s, maybe 90 -> 75 -> 60.

Actually the cooldown thing could be good for sprint as well.

TheFade
03-22-2014, 09:15 PM
Divine Ruin
This item gives too little Magical Power. It just clearly, plainly does. It should give 60 at a minimum to keep pace with its rank 2, but 80 seems appropriate. As it is, if you get Divine Ruin to combat healing, you end up with too little power for the healing debuff to matter.

MyCheesyName
03-22-2014, 10:04 PM
Heartseeker (Rank 3) New cost 1 gold


TL;DR: Heartseeker buff.

Jokahine
03-23-2014, 02:49 AM
Divine Ruin
This item gives too little Magical Power. It just clearly, plainly does. It should give 60 at a minimum to keep pace with its rank 2, but 80 seems appropriate. As it is, if you get Divine Ruin to combat healing, you end up with too little power for the healing debuff to matter.

I agree, this item is underpowered as it's only good stat is the 50 magical power it gives. 60 sounds good, and the lifesteal and mana should be buffed a little, to 20% and 200.

Also, it needs a small cost reduction.

Jokahine
03-23-2014, 02:19 PM
Heartseeker (Rank 3) New cost 1 gold


TL;DR: Heartseeker buff.

So, if the tier 2 costs 1230 gold, would you gain gold by buying the tier 3?

Added my thoughts on new malice.

Jokahine
04-09-2014, 01:30 PM
A large amount of updating. Added a section for "diversying adc starter builds".

t2t4
04-12-2014, 12:42 AM
I also find Qins Sais pretty op I think it should be removed or nerfed

Jokahine
04-13-2014, 10:02 AM
I also find Qins Sais pretty op I think it should be removed or nerfed

It's getting nerfed next patch.

Osairiel
04-13-2014, 10:41 AM
RIP Quins.

I like all these ides because currently, Chronos pendant is not a viable item at all. When I see people buy it I get confused, Sure it's 75 magical power. But it's nothing really worth it. You could go buy any item for less that gives you the same. Did you know Pythag piece gives you the aura damage as well I believe ? Which means you get an extra 20 magical power with it already. You also get lifesteal and mana. Sure you don't get the CDR but if you want CDR, go for Breastplate of Valour 550 mana and 75 physical protection. Chronos pendant is also not at all cost effective because it costs so much and you save a ton of gold buying breastplate. It's a terrible item. Same as Book of Thoth needs something added or taken away for the gold cost to make it effective.

Jokahine
04-13-2014, 11:22 AM
RIP Quins.

I like all these ides because currently, Chronos pendant is not a viable item at all. When I see people buy it I get confused, Sure it's 75 magical power. But it's nothing really worth it. You could go buy any item for less that gives you the same. Did you know Pythag piece gives you the aura damage as well I believe ? Which means you get an extra 20 magical power with it already. You also get lifesteal and mana. Sure you don't get the CDR but if you want CDR, go for Breastplate of Valour 550 mana and 75 physical protection. Chronos pendant is also not at all cost effective because it costs so much and you save a ton of gold buying breastplate. It's a terrible item. Same as Book of Thoth needs something added or taken away for the gold cost to make it effective.

Read patchnotes. Thoth is getting buffed too :P

I know that piece also gives the aura to yourself, but it's just a really underpowered item currently when compared to bancrofts. It costs 200 more and gives 10 less power AND bancrofts gives you power from it's passive.

Qin's is btw not rip, but it's definetedly a lot weaker.

Kiaru
04-13-2014, 12:42 PM
Chronos pendant is an amazing item and buffing it would only make it overpowered.

Gummiel
04-13-2014, 01:47 PM
RIP Quins.

I like all these ides because currently, Chronos pendant is not a viable item at all. When I see people buy it I get confused, Sure it's 75 magical power. But it's nothing really worth it. You could go buy any item for less that gives you the same. Did you know Pythag piece gives you the aura damage as well I believe ? Which means you get an extra 20 magical power with it already. You also get lifesteal and mana. Sure you don't get the CDR but if you want CDR, go for Breastplate of Valour 550 mana and 75 physical protection. Chronos pendant is also not at all cost effective because it costs so much and you save a ton of gold buying breastplate. It's a terrible item. Same as Book of Thoth needs something added or taken away for the gold cost to make it effective.

Would you still buy breatplate of valor even if the enemy team consist of ONLY magic dmg characters?

Osairiel
04-13-2014, 06:57 PM
No but then you can buy other items. Chronos pendant is currently not worth the money. your paying like 3000 gold for 25% cooldown reduction, 75 magical power and some MP5. Your better off building any item other then that, Because you'll save a fortune and as everyone knows. Gold is part of what wins games. The quicker you can build. The more useful you are in a fight.

Osairiel
04-13-2014, 07:01 PM
Read patchnotes. Thoth is getting buffed too :P

I know that piece also gives the aura to yourself, but it's just a really underpowered item currently when compared to bancrofts. It costs 200 more and gives 10 less power AND bancrofts gives you power from it's passive.

Qin's is btw not rip, but it's definetedly a lot weaker.

Didn't notice Thoth getting buffed. Ao glass cannon incoming lol

the thing is, If your buying Bancrofts, you're not getting the extra mana for it. It gives you no mana at all and that can make a difference between your life or getting that needed kill to take an objective or saving a team mate.

And Quins blade isn't viable unless you countering a very high health team, Like a full tank meta. The reason Sais was put in was because it'd help hunters take down tanks because they just weren't putting in enough damage. Now however, they are seeing warriors picking up Quins to kill hunters which is sort of breaking everything because almost all the warriors are OP. Wukong, Odin, Nemesis, Chaac is still really strong. Guan Yu isn't that great unless your Trixtank.

I personally think they should keep Quins sais in the game, But make it only buyable on hunters. It'll give you the needed shred to actually take down a tank or a warrior without them tearing you apart.

Gummiel
04-14-2014, 01:48 AM
No but then you can buy other items. Chronos pendant is currently not worth the money. your paying like 3000 gold for 25% cooldown reduction, 75 magical power and some MP5. Your better off building any item other then that, Because you'll save a fortune and as everyone knows. Gold is part of what wins games. The quicker you can build. The more useful you are in a fight.
So im going say hel, and the enemy is all magical gods. So you telling me i should not go full CDR then?

and it is 2400 for chronos pendant (vs 2300 for breastplate)

Lefargon
04-14-2014, 03:53 AM
So im going say hel, and the enemy is all magical gods. So you telling me i should not go full CDR then?

and it is 2400 for chronos pendant (vs 2300 for breastplate)

Every item has a niche, what makes an item good is versatility and late-game utility/usefulness. It's just that 90% of the time, if you happen to need CDR then breastplate gives you more than pendant does. I honestly don't think pendant is that underpowered now, it certainly has it's niche even if mp5 is still a pointless stat to tack on there (then again so is mana on breastplate) but I certainly don't think it needs to be balanced any further than it already has been, it's just that there are better, more cost effective items.

Osairiel
04-14-2014, 02:12 PM
Every item has a niche, what makes an item good is versatility and late-game utility/usefulness. It's just that 90% of the time, if you happen to need CDR then breastplate gives you more than pendant does. I honestly don't think pendant is that underpowered now, it certainly has it's niche even if mp5 is still a pointless stat to tack on there (then again so is mana on breastplate) but I certainly don't think it needs to be balanced any further than it already has been, it's just that there are better, more cost effective items.

Well no. The mana on breastplate is 550. As Ao Kuang you get an extra 3 - 4 tornadoes from it PLUS it stacks his passive. Mana is always useful to have because you can use more abilities and on every god that is always useful.

The thing with Chronos is I still don't think it's a good item. Purely because other items give the same then more.

And full CDR isn't always a good idea anyway. Sure you get more abilities out, But your sacrificing penetration and damage for that CDR. So I tend to not do it that often unless I'm using a god as full ability damage.

DeltaEpsilon
04-28-2014, 02:27 PM
This is great and really well thought through, well done.

Jokahine
05-01-2014, 12:16 PM
If the enemy team is all magical, i rather buy the 10% cdr and 55 magic protection item.

Pendant is only good when the enemy team is like 4 mage 1 physical, and even then very subpar.

Gotmilk4377
05-04-2014, 01:13 AM
I like the Midgardian Mail idea, that item right now is soooo useless.