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View Full Version : Why does everything have to be so left/right and black/white?



SinDreadElla
11-04-2015, 07:26 AM
I found myself being more invested in politics these days and in my personal opinion, the way some government authorities are running their countries, to me, just seems pretty bad.

Now before I get into all of this for those who don't understand left/right wing allow me to explain.
If you know what this is all about, feel free to skip this part. However if anyone is more well-informed about these things, I welcome you to check it just in case I may have misinterpreted the two sides of the coin.



Left-wing states that any person is obliged to help someone when they are in need of help.
If you do not carry it out, you may be viewed by the people around you as an immoral person and may even be punished under the law that you deliberately ignored someone in need of help.
The rich individuals in countries like these are often taxed higher the more they earn so that their money can be redistributed to provide free education, health and basic necessities to those in need of one.
Discrimination of unfortunate minorities (such as people with disabilities) are frowned upon because this system believes that it was never their fault that they were put into such state, and hence should instead be given priorities or privileges over the normal able people.

Right-wing states that the choice of helping someone is solely their own business and should not be judged by anyone or anything.
Survival of the fittest is the name of the game here and if you can't keep up for whatever reason, you may be frowned upon by the people around you.
The rich in the country are taxed just as equally as anyone else and everyone pays for their own education and healthcare.
You get no extra advantage for being disabled for you will be treated and required to do just as much work as an able-bodied person. You will not be looked upon kindly if you ever use your disability as an excuse to avoid work.


Now I know there is another axis of Fascism<->Anarchism but these days some of these things get implemented into both the left and right wings together and it varies depending on country to country.


What happens when someone (or a group of people) starts becoming a bit too left or right?

In the left, we often see minorities becoming a bit too boisterous and self-entitled. They may end up wanting more privileges than they already have. And in the most extreme cases people who aren't even disabled may become so self-entitled that they started thinking that the world has to revolve around them.
Despite the system trying to impose equality to help the truly unfortunate people, things becoming ironic when the laws were made to pander these few ethnic minority or sex groups because society will see them as racist/sexist should they ever oppose it.
Here is an example of one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VbHUI1R3IA). <-(Remember that this is showing the very few but very loud extreme side of the spectrum and this by no means is a representation of a left-wing policy.)

When things take to the far right, we end up seeing extreme discrimination against minorities. People in this category may become extremely xenophobic. People in this category ends up blaming everything around them ranging from "governments pandering to the minority" to "minorities/immigrants are taking their job away" despite them being replaced for not being as skilled as the people they have been replaced with.
Things here also take an ironic turn when survival of the fittest is no longer the name of the game as these people attempt to change the law where they state that all immigrants should be deported back to their countries or minorities who aren't the same race being banned from accomplishing the same opportunities as them.
An example of extreme right would be something like this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ZixuyE1t8) <-(Again I'm not saying all right-wing is like this. Plus I find the comments in the video just as nauseating as the extremist in the video.)


So what do I think of all of this?
Well first, a quick background story about myself.
I was born and brought up in a very xenophobic and right-wing country. People of varying skin colour or beliefs are often looked down upon there.
As I grew up, I moved to the UK (currently a left-wing country). In the most extreme case of left-wing in this country, there are people who lived their whole lives off of benefits from the government while doing absolutely nothing except blame the government even more for "not giving them enough benefit/privileges".

This all made me think why many countries aren't trying to achieve a perfect neutrality without leaning either left or right.
Personally to me, I don't think any rich people in the country should be taxed higher just because they earn more.
I believe that while "survival of the fittest" isn't exactly the best idea (because if this is the case, people of brilliant minds like Steven Hawkings would simply cease to exist) pandering to the ethnic minority is far from being the correct idealogy.
In my opinion, those who are disabled from birth should be helped because it wasn't a choice of theirs that they were born with one. HOWEVER, should they ever start abusing the system that is providing them care, I simply wouldn't feel any remorse if their extra benefits and privileges are cut off and they were made to fend for themselves.
No race, sex or a belief group should be given a priority over another or discriminated by anyone.

Nalessa
11-04-2015, 08:46 AM
Noticed this alot when certain things are mentioned.

"I think healthcare could be a neat way to help out people who for example can't afford the costs of cancer treatement"

COMMUNIST!!1!11!1! Go back to russia!1!1!1 HUrrrdrrrrrr.

Like really? -_-'

Pim Fortuyn got killed aswell because the media portraited him as an extreme right person.

Basically what this guy said was:
If you move to holland and you pay taxes, abide to the laws, don't cause trouble, we don't mind at all.

If you move here however and don't pay taxes, harass women because they aren't wearing a burka, don't have a job, cause trouble all the time you should be kicked out.

But the media actually demonized the guy, even compared him to being the next hitler, and ofcourse some crazy guy believed all of it and shot the dude.

Zorgulus
11-04-2015, 08:49 AM
I like how looking out for the interests of your own people is given the buzzword "xenophobic".

That's an A+ left wing tactic, aka vilifying the interests of others. Just like feminists spamming the word "misogyny" at every occasion they get.

Left wings are slaves to the PC narrative.

SinDreadElla
11-04-2015, 10:06 AM
-snip-
As a side note and a curious question, would you by any chance say that Donald Trump is perhaps demonised by the news?

So far, I've seen him being a bit too emotional instead of factual, which to me, isn't a good sign of a president. However, since I'm not an American and all the information I've been seeing is through the eyes of one thing (the news), I'm curious to know what other people think of him.



I like how looking out for the interests of your own people is given the buzzword "xenophobic".

That's an A+ left wing tactic, aka vilifying the interests of others. Just like feminists spamming the word "misogyny" at every occasion they get.

Left wings are slaves to the PC narrative.
For me, the way I see it, I see a human.
I don't see something like "their people", "my people", "my countrymen", "those immigrants", etc.

I don't feel any remorse for an illegal immigrant mind you let alone those who cause trouble.
However, if said immigrant is legally doing a good job at their work through a legal working visa, I personally couldn't care if they be an immigrant, any colour of skin, what clothing they wear, what food they eat (or not eat), have a specific reproductive system, etc.

But recently in the UK, I heard news where they are attempting to restrict the number of workers coming from overseas in an attempt to promote British citizens to work in jobs such as being a doctor (despite the fact that many were never interested to work there to begin with).
And every so now and then I hear some people keep saying "Those people are taking our jobs" despite the fact that they themselves aren't working or skilled enough to achieve said jobs.

Is this starting to sound familiar?
You know, like how certain places restrict the number of male workers in an attempt to hire more females, despite the males probably being more interested and being more skilful in the job?

Nalessa
11-04-2015, 10:41 AM
I dunno.

Maybe a little.

But I know he tried to sue some guy because he made a joke about his dad being a orangutan and has a history of sueing or trying to do so for rediculous reasons, has little experience with politics compared other candidates, is a pure businessman so I highly doubt he cares about anyone that isn't in his rich elite club outside of PR stuff to make himself look better.

I can't take him serious myself because of that.

Enigmatisty
11-04-2015, 11:33 AM
I dunno.

Maybe a little.

But I know he tried to sue some guy because he made a joke about his dad being a orangutan and has a history of sueing or trying to do so for rediculous reasons, has little experience with politics compared other candidates, is a pure businessman so I highly doubt he cares about anyone that isn't in his rich elite club outside of PR stuff to make himself look better.

I can't take him serious myself because of that.

Guy sounds like the Taylor Swift of politics.
I don't like him myself because if he becomes President, we risk losing support from Hispanic countries and possibly ostracize the tons of Hispanics living in the U.S. at the moment. We'd be risking another Confederacy except with Hispanic people.
And there's Bernie Sanders who's promising to make corporations pay for college education so students don't have to pay off loans that go well off into their 50s. He gets a bad rep for it and suddenly being a Socialist is being a Communist and the next incarnation of Stalin.

Zorgulus
11-04-2015, 03:25 PM
For me, the way I see it, I see a human.
I don't see something like "their people", "my people", "my countrymen", "those immigrants", etc.

I don't feel any remorse for an illegal immigrant mind you let alone those who cause trouble.
However, if said immigrant is legally doing a good job at their work through a legal working visa, I personally couldn't care if they be an immigrant, any colour of skin, what clothing they wear, what food they eat (or not eat), have a specific reproductive system, etc.

But recently in the UK, I heard news where they are attempting to restrict the number of workers coming from overseas in an attempt to promote British citizens to work in jobs such as being a doctor (despite the fact that many were never interested to work there to begin with).
And every so now and then I hear some people keep saying "Those people are taking our jobs" despite the fact that they themselves aren't working or skilled enough to achieve said jobs.

Is this starting to sound familiar?
You know, like how certain places restrict the number of male workers in an attempt to hire more females, despite the males probably being more interested and being more skilful in the job?

You don't see culture, you say?
You don't see race, you say?
You don't see sex, you say?
You don't see age, you say?
You don't see religion, you say?

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the PC narrative is being pushed so far down people's throat, that they force themselves to be blind for the sake of not offending anyone or being "chill" with everyone.

Let me point out a flaw in your reasoning..
You think you just see "people"? Then why do we have countries?
Why don't we have one global government? Do you legitimately want to see "only people"?

These immigrants become citizens of whatever country they're in, which means that they're still "THEIR" people, the people of the country.

You're headed towards the idea of having global government.

Looking for others' interests is usually done at the expense of their own or another group.
Good look finding your Utopia.

SinDreadElla
11-04-2015, 04:23 PM
-snip-
You keep mentioning "PC narrative" which, I'll be frank, I don't know what it means. Google didn't help me either so you'll have to elaborate on that one.

You seem to be deliberately twisting my words.
I see culture and having a variety of it is something I've always been fascinated about.
I see people of various race and I whole-heartedly accept the diversity as well. What I don't see however is how anyone should be discriminated based on the colour of their skin be they white/black/yellow/red/etc. (That's what I mean when I say I couldn't care less about the colour of skin.)
I see male/female/transgender but again, I couldn't care less what they do with their body so long as they are either not harming anyone or have consent from the partner.
Same thing with religion as long as the thing they believe in doesn't come along with any harm to another person.

Also you mentioned that my way of thinking is "flawed" and you have yet to point out a good reason why it's flawed.
I have yet to see how a single world government is 100% bad. Let's not talk about the new world order conspiracies here because we've never had any experience of a totalitarian government in the history of mankind to confirm that it's worse than the current system.
If anything in my opinion (and I'm probably going to sound like those people who point finger and blame things but) extreme patriotism is what causes so much discrimination in some countries, violence between people and in the worst case, wars.

Zorgulus
11-04-2015, 04:40 PM
You keep mentioning "PC narrative" which, I'll be frank, I don't know what it means. Google didn't help me either so you'll have to elaborate on that one.

You seem to be deliberately twisting my words.
I see culture and having a variety of it is something I've always been fascinated about.
I see people of various race and I whole-heartedly accept the diversity as well. What I don't see however is how anyone should be discriminated based on the colour of their skin be they white/black/yellow/red/etc. (That's what I mean when I say I couldn't care less about the colour of skin.)
I see male/female/transgender but again, I couldn't care less what they do with their body so long as they are either not harming anyone or have consent from the partner.
Same thing with religion as long as the thing they believe in doesn't come along with any harm to another person.

Also you mentioned that my way of thinking is "flawed" and you have yet to point out a good reason why it's flawed.
I have yet to see how a single world government is 100% bad. Let's not talk about the new world order conspiracies here because we've never had any experience of a totalitarian government in the history of mankind to confirm that it's worse than the current system.[
If anything in my opinion (and I'm probably going to sound like those people who point finger and blame things but) extreme patriotism is what causes so much discrimination in some countries, violence between people and in the worst case, wars.

Politically Correct narrative = everyone's equal, everyone deserves the same rights, everyone's deserves to be treated the same

The typical fat acceptance, anti slut-shaming, anti-racist, anti-sexist narrative, aka ideals with no foundation other than an appeal to emotion.

Multiculturalism requires massive management from the state to be inclusive of everyone, and it's simply impossible for it not to trump the natives' culture, because it becomes broad enough to ensure every culture's right..and eventually the natives become second class citizen, because everything is aimed at catering minorities. This is where political correctness comes in and destabilizes the entire nation with its attempt at making everyone equal.

Let us not turn a blind eye to white genocide, which is pretty much multiculturalism today, but I won't get into that..there's a whole thread about it in this section already.

LoudAndAnnoying
11-04-2015, 10:05 PM
You oversimplify political parties, and miss the real point.

Political parties in the modern world exist to control what kind of people get elected, they help get people who will follow their exact agenda into office, shifting the power from the voter, to the non-democratically elected party leaders

A vote on party lines is a vote for tyranny.

SinDreadElla
11-04-2015, 10:48 PM
-snip-
I assume you're talking about the modern term "equality" where people use it to defend themselves from criticism despite them doing something/proposing a very unequal statement/argument, often followed up by a very rude method of arguing such as shouting down or calling derogatory terms to the opposing group.

In which case, let me make my stance clear. I don't stand up for those kind of "equality" because that isn't even the actual definition of the word. But I can see how the term equality may have already devolved into something like the word feminism where it's no longer about bringing up the standards and privileges of women to the same level as men, but exceeding them as well with plenty and plenty of double standards.

My idea of equality is if a woman physically assaults a man first, he has every right to retaliate without fearing the consequences of the law.
Similarly if a work place requires a uniform code, you shouldn't be an exemption from the rule because of what beliefs you have. The answer is simple that if you don't like the rule, don't apply for said job.
Likewise, if a work place doesn't have a uniform code and allows religious clothing at their workplace, none of these people should be ill-treated for wearing one to work.

I do like to think of myself as having a neutral view on this whole thing, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It will even be better if someone could give me an insight on whether my views are a bit on the left or the right.



You oversimplify political parties, and miss the real point.

Political parties in the modern world exist to control what kind of people get elected, they help get people who will follow their exact agenda into office, shifting the power from the voter, to the non-democratically elected party leaders

A vote on party lines is a vote for tyranny.
I'm genuinely interested in what I missed out in my simplification.
Like I said, I'm not extremely knowledgable about politics and the research that I often get on the internet tends to be plenty biased where each side would often describe themselves as the epitomy of good standard while tearing down the other side.

Zorgulus
11-05-2015, 12:35 AM
I assume you're talking about the modern term "equality" where people use it to defend themselves from criticism despite them doing something/proposing a very unequal statement/argument, often followed up by a very rude method of arguing such as shouting down or calling derogatory terms to the opposing group.

In which case, let me make my stance clear. I don't stand up for those kind of "equality" because that isn't even the actual definition of the word. But I can see how the term equality may have already devolved into something like the word feminism where it's no longer about bringing up the standards and privileges of women to the same level as men, but exceeding them as well with plenty and plenty of double standards.

My idea of equality is if a woman physically assaults a man first, he has every right to retaliate without fearing the consequences of the law.
Similarly if a work place requires a uniform code, you shouldn't be an exemption from the rule because of what beliefs you have. The answer is simple that if you don't like the rule, don't apply for said job.
Likewise, if a work place doesn't have a uniform code and allows religious clothing at their workplace, none of these people should be ill-treated for wearing one to work.

I do like to think of myself as having a neutral view on this whole thing, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It will even be better if someone could give me an insight on whether my views are a bit on the left or the right.


I don't like the whole right/left labels, I find them too vague, but what you just said leans on the right.

You support private companies' establishing their own rules basically, and the state can't intervene. (quotas and such)

You can't have a neutral point of view. The minute you think something should, you've taken a stance.
Neutrality doesn't exist in such situations other than if you're literally indifferent towards the issue.

Neutrality: This is this, this is this. I do not decide, I simply point out.